to tell my ex dh's no money, no access

[law3]

I have 2 ds 14, 12 by a previous marriage, which ended 10 years ago, ex has never paid a penny in maintenance, other than a pair of trainers here and there, he sees the kids every other weekend.

I have 1 ds 3.6 by my current marriage which ended about 2 weeks ago, after 8 years. He now wants to start seeing ds, but is refusing to pay any maintenance or his half of any debts we had.

I am in serious shit financially, overdraft £1000, loans, car finance (already sold the car and paid of some of it)etc, etc.

After i have paid bills and debts i am left with £150 a month to buy food, clothes, etc. I work part time, cant increase my hours, otherwise have to pay child minders.

I never thought i would consider using the kids as pawns, but how on earth am i suppose to feed and cloth them, surely there is more to being a dad that access at weekends.

I really do feel like saying no money, no access, to prompt them into paying something.

you are being slightly unreasonable but i dont blame you, but dont take it out on the kids

while I can understand your frustrations you are being totally unreasonable.

Your children are not bargaining chips, and by denying your ex access you are not only denying him his right to see his children, but you are denying your children the right to see their father.

They didn't have a say in any of this.

Personally I don't think fathers ought to have any "rights" if they don't contribute financially or practically to their children's lives.

YANBU

but what about the children? Do they not have any rights in this? Is it right that children should be told they can't see their father because the mother has decided this?

Yes I think that absent parents should contribute to their children's upbringing, but it makes me very when people use their children as pawns to get what they want. They are children fgs.

forget the kids and ex, I think you need some financial help on this, which i hope somebody on here could give you.

IMO, YABU.

Don't let your children be pawns.

I think that it is very wrong for children to be given as an example in life a mother who does all the labour of bringing them up and financing them and a father who can swan in and out of their lives as he pleases in the name of rights.

What kind of families and sense of responsibility for others will you create for the future from that example?

YANBU to feel like that, but it would be totally unfair on your children. The financial arrangements between yourself and your ex's are nothing to do with them, so it's unfair to deny them contact because of that.

i totally understand your anger about the money. But the children's right to have a father is the important thing. You're right, you would be using them as pawns......

Your children don't judge his success as a father through what he pays for. One day, they surely will! But now, they judge his success as a dad on the fact that he sees them, he loves them, and they love him.

It's like saying that you don't get to put them to bed tonight because you haven't paid enough for the privelege.

It IS seperate and their relationship with their dad is more important.

i do totally understand your frustration but you need to deal with the money as a seperate issue; and you need to do it legally through solicitors if there's no other way.

And Anna I don't think anyone is suggesting fathers should be able to swan in and out without contributing in financial and practical terms, just that denying children a relationship with their father is not the best way to achieve a better balance of responsibilities between both parents.

You must be stressed out. Take one day at a time. Do everything you need to do to get some maintenance. Try and keep it separate from the children's relationships with their dads.
Be patient, don't panic, be easy on yourself, you are in a difficult situation at the moment but stay true to your higher self. What goes around comes around and it won't always be like this.

swanning in/out of children's lives is a different issue. The Op already said that the father of her eldest children sees them every other weekend so that does not constitute "swanning in and out".

Re your financial issues, these are separate from access, because if you were to deny your ex's access you would still have financial issues so this will not solve anything. I would speak to a solicitor about gaining maintenance, and would also try to speak to your first husband to see if you can come to an arrangement, although if you've not challenged him before it won't be easy.

We don't know in what circumstances the OP's elder children see their father every other weekend, so we have no information on whether he is making a responsible practical contribution to their upbringing.

I entirely agree with the OP that there is much more to being a dad than access at weekends. Much, much more. Too many children are growing up thinking women should do all the work in raising families - including financing them. That is not a victory for feminism - it is a victory for patriarchy.

Take this month for example, today is pay day, yipee for most!!!!

I have just checked my balance and i have £74.82 to last until the 1st of next month.

Just feels so unfair, that both ex's work and will no doubt be doing their shopping etc, while we will be eating egg on toast tonight.

Ds's will be going to dad's next weekend, going out for meals, days out, eating well an i will be asked to provide some 'smart clothes'.

I guess what im really scared off, is that at dad's they have a 'better' life and might want to stay there. Im always the one having to say no, it pisses me off that dad can alway afford to say yes.

Send DS away without nice clothes, if ex wants him in smart clothes then he should provide them.
You are not going, it is therefore not your problem whether DS looks smart or not.

I am slightly torn though between the whole issue of children having a right to see their father when he is not feeding, educating or clothing them.

You could maybe meet in the middle. Say, of course you (father) can see the children, but not without you (mother) being there. He can have unsupervised contact as soon as he starts taking responsibility and pay for their upkeep.

if financially you can't provide smart clothes, then don't. Tell your ex that they're his children too and that if he wants them t be dressed smartly when going out with him, then it is his responsibility to buy them some.

You need some legal advice. You could go to CAB and they should be able to help you through the process of getting an initial appointment with a solicitor.

You don't just have to put up with this; it's not a case of a) the dads do whatever they want or b) you use the kids as pawns to get a contribition.

It's actually c) the relationship ends with an seperation agreement so that you are able to continue to provide a home and that, as Anna says, your kids don't grow up with the view that it's ok for dads not to contribute financially and mums do all the work.

Of course it's not ok for that to happen; but you don't need to relate that issue to their contact with their father.

why have you never involved the csa?

Why have you not applied to the courts for maintenance? What was the order made at the time of your first divorce? Presumably maintenance for the children was sorted as part of ancillary relief. If there is an order in place, apply to the courts to vary it. Inform the court that he has never abided by the previous order and ask them to attach a penal notice to the order. That way, if he doesn't pay, he risks being arrested. Short, sharp shock.

With second dh, get the CSA involved. I know they are about a useful as a chocolate teapot, but if you don't do anything, you are colluding in both exes evading their responsibilities.

Are you in receipt of tax credits? Have you checked to see if you may be entitled to other benefits? If not, go and see CAB and get them to check.

Freckle, that's a good point about tax credits. Worth checking.

I really think you would benefit from an appointment at your local CAB. Tell them it's advice about money and legal matters you want, they should have workers who specialise in those areas.

You can't and it is entirely unreasonable. You need not starve and your dc need love first and foremost.

CSA and CAB are what you need. Sort things out so you have enough to live on and do what you can to get the money you deserve but DON'T use your children to do this. They will never thank you for it.

Have you tried telling them what your finances actually are. Tell them the start numbers you quoted here. And say that it is almost impossible to cater for the kids properly on that budget and would they like to contribute.

Maybe a friendly and honest approach might be worth a try.

You definately need to see a solicitor and sort out your current marriage breakup and finances inc maintenance.

As for your ex, if you havent bothered chasing him for maintenance in 10 years, unless you have a very good relationship with him you may have to pursue through the CSA but it can only go from the date you claim from and not be backdated all those years.

Courts take a very dim view on mothers who with hold access for financial reasons and would order the contact to continue - it would be harder on the children and more costly for you. They would not look at supervised contact either as there is no reason too.

I agree that fathers should support their children, ideally willingly if not through the CSA. However, i disagree with children being used as pawns in money disagreements. Their relationship with their respective fathers is separate from yours and the exs.