to suggest NOT wearing masks, but instead wearing . . .

[Durgasarrow]

the charmingly named Neck Gaitors? They have been my all-purpose solution to the Great Mask Dilemma of 2020. They're washable, lightweight, stylish, useful, versatile, you can wear them as a scarf and pull them up as needed, or as a hairband or even a bracelet if it's too constricting to keep it around your neck. They're cheap to order from Amazon by the half dozen--they have seriously helped me keep my sanity.

Looking forward to winter where coughs and cold become more prevalent, you'll get people who won't test or isolate at all because "it's just a winter bug" and "we only just finished the last self-isolation" and they'll carry on as normally as possible - powering through, as they say - and it'll all be fine because they wear a mask on the bus and at the shop.

I tried using my snoods early in the pandemic but find them way too warm

I've got one of these.

On the plus side, it really embarrasses the teens and they don't want to be seen with me with it on.

I'm finding it hard to find a mask that doesn't slip off my ears when I smile.

Unfortunately in wales they specify a 3 layer mask rather than just a face covering. But I find these more comfy when nipping over the border into england.

Doesn't work so well with yours cos of the pattern but you can wear them as a 3+ layer mask easily

There will definitely be more people who have mild symptoms out and about because they now have their magic mask to protect others.

The stay home message has been lost now. We should have always concentrated on isolation of households that have active infection. Not quarentine everyone.

Now so many people have had to stay home, lose finances, lose quality of life for so long, they are not going to stay home unless they are too ill to go out, and they are definitely not going to stay home because little Tommy has a cough.

Imagine you've just been able to start working again as a sole trader or a small business owner, you're finances are on a cliff edge - and your partner gets ill but you're fine. Are you really gonna stop working for another 2 weeks. Of course you're not, you're gonna put on your magic mask and carry on working - kidding yourself that you won't infect others.

Really good point about winter sniffles too. How will we tell the
difference between normal winter sniffles and covid - seeing as what 40%-80% of people have mild to no symptoms. People aren't going to keep isolating every time they get a stuffy nose. Employers are under no obligation to pay you if you do. But it's OK, we've got our masks to protect others.

Now I think about it, could that be the deeper reasons for mask mandating. The gov can't deal with 10000s of households self isolating over winter for possible covid when it's just normal coughs and colds - so they mandate masks to make it look like we are still doing "somthing". Keep everyone out and working.

I find these just too hot. Much prefer a lightly fitting face mask/covering.

@KittyFantastico - completely agree.

I wore a mask yesterday for the first time, to go to the Co-op. The first thing that struck me is that they make people appear to be anti-social. You normally smile and say hello if there's a chap guarding the door (which there was). How are you supposed to be sociable and polite if your face is covered?

How are babies going to learn to communicate effectively if everyone around them has their facial expressions and mouths hidden?

I then went to another shop because I needed a particular item. I tried to explain to the assistant that my existing one had broken, because I wanted to know if it could be repaired. I got hot and bothered because of the stupid mask and ended up leaving. The assistant was not wearing a mask, by the way, so - if the frothers are to be believed - she was breathing Covid all over me.

The sooner this sodding mask idea is binned, the better.

It is not possible to function as a human being with a mask on. We desperately need human interaction. I always find the people on the door at shops so cheerful and pleasant but this little nicety is now removed. We have become a land where people scurry about and avoid each other.

Unfortunately in wales they specify a 3 layer mask rather than just a face covering. But I find these more comfy when nipping over the border into england.

Do they?? For what? Masks aren’t compulsory in shops in Wales? I’m asking genuinely because I’m in Wales and haven’t seen this. Where do we have to wear a 3 layer face covering?

@Lockdownfatigue

Unfortunately in wales they specify a 3 layer mask rather than just a face covering. But I find these more comfy when nipping over the border into england.

Do they?? For what? Masks aren’t compulsory in shops in Wales? I’m asking genuinely because I’m in Wales and haven’t seen this. Where do we have to wear a 3 layer face covering?

On public transport including taxis - it's not in shops in Wales.

I am delighted to see all the responses here! I didn't know there were buffs/neck gaitors/boho bandannas what have you that had ear loops.I don't believe they are the same as snoods--aren't snoods usually made of net and enclosed at the bottom, made for holding hair? These are more like a tube of fabric you would wear around your neck. I am also glad that you can buy them in local stores. I live in the U.S. and I don't know where you can buy them locally in the U.K. That is why I mentioned Amazon. I do not know how anyone could think I could be making a sales pitch since I do not point anyone to a brand or style, and only gave a couple of pictures from two different sellers to show what they actually looked like. Some Mumsnetters can be awfully cynical!

Dr. Maxwell, I would love to see your teenagers' faces when you wear your lovely cat buff.

It is not possible to function as a human being with a mask on.

Of course it is! It's perfectly possible to be pleasant to people whilst wearing a mask. If you give a big smile it will show in your eyes. A slight nod or a polite hand gesture are good means of communication. Not to mention your voice!

How are babies going to learn to communicate effectively if everyone around them has their facial expressions and mouths hidden?

From the unmasked people they spend the vast majority of their time with - immediate family.

I then went to another shop because I needed a particular item. I tried to explain to the assistant that my existing one had broken, because I wanted to know if it could be repaired. I got hot and bothered because of the stupid mask and ended up leaving.

Can you imagine a surgeon saying, "I tried to do your operation but all this PPE made me hot and bothered so I just gave up".

@randomer

It is not possible to function as a human being with a mask on. We desperately need human interaction. I always find the people on the door at shops so cheerful and pleasant but this little nicety is now removed. We have become a land where people scurry about and avoid each other.

That's ridiculous, of course you can function, a lack of greeting going into a shop is a small price to pay for trying to limit virus spread.

I can't believe that my area is the only one in the land where normal conversations are still carrying on in shops, no one is scurrying around here, maybe you need to move area.

When the masks were made compulsory here back in April, we were given only a couple of days to prepare, which was mildly annoying as there weren't many masks to be found anywhere. Now I see why such short notice was a good idea - much better than giving people two whole weeks to rant and rave and work themselves up into a frenzy.

How are babies going to learn to communicate effectively if everyone around them has their facial expressions and mouths hidden?

Unless a baby spends all its time on public transport or indoor public places it's going to learn just fine, that's not a serious worry for you is it?

There are some bonkers people around, were they all like this pre-corona and just kept a low profile?

Jesus, like babies learn to communicate from listening to randoms in shops...

Especially in MumsnetLand, where anyone even looking at your baby needs to be reported to the police immediately, as they obviously have nefarious intentions and you can't be too careful.

What a great post by Lifesalongsong.

I wonder what percentage of it's life Nature's greatest learning machine would spend only surrounded by people in shops and on public transport?

Lots of talk about 'evidence' then pure assertion and discounting evidence that contradicts their chosen position. Anti-science really but dressed up with misunderstood science where they think it supports them.

A lot of what I hear about COVID on MN is echoed by people I know IRL who had the same mindset pre-COVID, IME just about other issues. Generally, deciding a position then picking and choosing (often misunderstanding) 'evidence' to support their views and discounting anything to the contrary.

IRL, the people I know were previously a mix of anti-vax, anti-climate change, pro-Brexit, pro-Trump and fixating on random things like UFOs evidence suppressed 'by them'.

It's odd how I get told by these people to do my own research, scratch the surface and so on by people who spend their time watching youtube conspiracy videos but when I ask about things that contradict basic thermodynamics, there's no understanding, let alone a response.

Lots of talk about 'evidence' then pure assertion and discounting evidence that contradicts their chosen position. Anti-science really but dressed up with misunderstood science where they think it supports them.

I'd say that this is exactly what you've done
None of what I posted was pure assertion. It was scientific papers and a link to a cognitive scientist describing his work from the book he'd written about how we use visual feedback to help co-ordinate our movement.

If the mask is over your eyes, you're doing it wrong.

I have just tested with two models of homemade mask and a bought mask. They are close-fitting bits of fabric that cover my mouth, my nose and part of my cheeks. The downward edge of my peripheral vision, straight in front, is changed by the mask, but only to the same extent it would be changed by wearing glasses with bulky frames like Yoko Ono. At one point, the trendy youth were wearing bulky frames with plain lenses as a fashion item, so I think that shows how surmountable an obstacle it is.

@Medievalist, a surgical mask is designed for just that. It is part of the professional persons uniform.

@lifesalongsong, I didn't say the lack of greeting when entering a shop was crucial. It is part of our ever decreasing social contact. We are mammal, social beings.

@Medievalist, a surgical mask is designed for just that. It is part of the professional persons uniform.

@lifesalongsong, I didn't say the lack of greeting when entering a shop was crucial. It is part of our ever decreasing social contact. We are mammal, social beings.

Plimpy, nice to see you again. Have I touched a raw nerve?

Your post about the evidence that masks caused harm then just listed a bunch of qualitative possibilities.

Though I'm still PMSL at your post that
"Nature doesn't carry much more authority than Twitter in the Scientific community..." which you then appeared to justify with a popular newspaper article
www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2013/dec/09/how-journals-nature-science-cell-damage-science

Apart from the leap from that article to your statement, it's interesting you agree with something in the Guardian when it suits your argument.

I recognise the following is assertion but here goes - none of the scientists I work with think 'Nature doesn't carry much more authority than Twitter in the Scientific community'. That is the most monumentally stupid statement I've heard all day.

Your post about the evidence that masks caused harm then just listed a bunch of qualitative possibilities.

Nope. One of them found increased risk of infection.
I agree that the rest of the downsides are the result of mask mandates, not masks themselves, and I'll make sure to make the distinction in the future.
There are already many reported cases of the rise of hate incidents towards those exempt from wearing masks.

Nature doesn't carry much more authority than Twitter in the Scientific community..." which you then appeared to justify with a popular newspaper article

Written by a Nobel peace prize winning scientist. The article he has written states that many of the papers published in Nature are good, but many also aren't. Which makes the journal less reliable as a source. Much like the Guardian, it depends on who the authors are.

None of the scientists I work with think 'Nature doesn't carry much more authority than Twitter in the Scientific community'.

That's not very scientific. The ones I know do think that (well, not all of them).
It's well known that journal publishers have a stranglehold on what gets published, and they aren't without their own agendas. Much like the WHO.

OOH, is there a bit of history here then? Plimpy versus Zilla, a kind of school scrap.

I cover my face on a rare trip to a shop because I have been told to do so and tbh because I can't be bothered with the aggro.
I think it's a waste of time and effort, just like washing groceries, worrying about 2 metres and giving your phone number out just so you can get a cup of coffee.

Densely populated areas and workplaces, care homes, poverty and possibly race seem to me to be of interest. Not whether or not I wear a bloody bandana when I am away from people anyway.

The MH fall out from this will last a long time.