Mask shamed (disability), complain? (Some TMI)

[Maskwoes]

I've NCed for this thread as I expect the details I share will make the case highly identifiable. MNHQ can confirm I'm a member of some years.

I have several disabilities, physical and psychological. I am unable to wear a face mask because I have PTSD from sexual trauma as a young teen. I'm sorry for TMI but it's relevant to the case - I was raped and penetrated in my mouth too. Due to this nothing can cover my mouth, it's an instant panic attack.

I had to attend a hospital yesterday - minor injuries unit. I approached to book in and was instantly ordered to put on a mask, one was offered, to which I replied I was unable to do so due to a mental health condition. She fetched a nurse who asked why I was refusing to wear one, and that if I did not then I would be removed from the unit. This area is very open and very public, with other patients being seen at the side of me.

I was becoming extremely anxious at this point and explained that I have PTSD. They wanted details. I was essentially railroaded into detailing what happened as a teen. I was told to wait and then taken into a room with a doctor and another nurse. I again had to explain in detail my PTSD. I was then offered a visor type mask which I found very claustrophobic and in all honesty unbearable.

I was then triaged, assessed and treated. In total I explained everything three times, had an hour-long major panic attack in the car afterwards and have been very on edge, upset, and on the edge of more panic attacks. I had two more overnight and haven't slept, am very upset.

I'm extremely pissed off in truth and am wondering whether I should complain, through which channels, how far to push and what the outcome would likely be.

I'm posting this in AIBU as I want the brutally honest views!

Thank you for reading.

My bad, sorry. I did read the thread but missed the OP was male.

@wonkylegs

I haven't read the full thread so I apologise if this has been covered by someone else. The nhs requirement for all staff and hospital visitors to wear a mask is not the same bit of legislation as the one for shops/public transport etc which makes it somewhat confusing. (Our governments speciality subject - confusing the public) The exemption list for it is not as extensive as the shops one, in fact it's quite limited and generally requires you to wear a visor if you can't wear a mask and the requirement is for all visitors & staff. Each nhs trust has specific rules which they are allowed to set (and are generally on their website) but basically if you are in a public or shared space within an nhs site you need to be wearing a mask. The OP has not been dealt with sensitively and that in itself is worth bringing up with the PALs team so that the issue can be brought up with staff so in future they can be much more careful and understanding. However you must be careful when you start running down the road shouting disability discrimination lawsuit. Why do you want to sue? What is your intended outcome? If you want them to address their way of doing things & get an apology then why not make a formal complaint - write to PALs copy in the Chief Executive of the trust and ask for a response addressing your concerns. It will cost you nothing bar the time it takes you to write the letter. If you want to take it to a wider audience address the discrepancy & confusing nature of the legislation copy in your MP. Suing for a one off incident is rarely worth it, can be stressful, upsetting and expensive as well as achieving little more than a complaint and a request to make changes would already do. I would write a letter, leave it overnight and then check you are happy you have said everything you have wanted to say, ask what they are going to do about it and give them an idea of what you think should be the outcome of your complaint (apology, change in procedures, training for staff) and ask them to respond. Leaving a letter overnight often helps form your thoughts and also allows you to pick up errors or omissions.

This is something I have been wondering about - I cannot find the relevant legislation.

This is the one covering public transport -
www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2020/592/contents/made

This is the one covering 'relevant places' -
www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2020/791/contents/made

Neither of these mention health care settings, hospitals etc.

The government guidance is here:
www.gov.uk/government/news/face-masks-and-coverings-to-be-worn-by-all-nhs-hospital-staff-and-visitors

It says 'All visitors and outpatients must wear face coverings at all times.' When the guidance says 'must' rather than 'should' that generally means it is backed by legislation but I can't find it anywhere.

Does anyone have a link to the actual legislation?

The guidance also says a scarf or bandana will do and gives a link to their advice on how to make a really shit, ineffective face covering. On 15 June, when these new rules came in, they were still giving instructions for how to make a face covering from a single layer of old t shirt.

<a class="break-all" href="https://web.archive.org/web/20200615205939/www.gov.uk/government/publications/how-to-wear-and-make-a-cloth-face-covering/how-to-wear-and-make-a-cloth-face-covering" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">web.archive.org/web/20200615205939/www.gov.uk/government/publications/how-to-wear-and-make-a-cloth-face-covering/how-to-wear-and-make-a-cloth-face-covering

All those who are horrified at the huge extra risk faced by staff if they have to treat someone who cannot wear a face covering should remember that the government has said any old shit will do.

Some people seem to think that if someone cannot wear a bit of old stretched sock strapped to their face, or a thin bandana, then the only way to mitigate this huge additional risk is for staff to wear full ICU style PPE.

It would be hilarious if it was not so utterly awful.

Let us know how you get on, OP. You might want to involve your MP as well

@RufustheRowlingReindeer

Thanks remember

You are, i think, the 7th person to tell me that 😀

The fifth since I apologised for my original mistake

Big thread though...

Cancel the cheque!

Between this and the victim-shaming one from the woman who was sedated extra so her body could be used as a lesson to someone training during a procedure,

Do you have a link to the latter, and it's a disgusting practice, used to be very common, no idea the prevalence now. Of course apologists say "but how else are students supposed to learn". Infuriating.

@PinkSparkleUnicorns

Hi maskwoes, sorry for how corny this sounds but I'm really proud of you for taking a stand. You're strength and determination is inspiring. You were treated appallingly and rightly so you should take legal action. If you start a petition please post the link, I'd happily sign as I'm sure many others would also.

Aww, but I'm not, the inspiring people are everybody out there who are abused and persecuted on a regular basis. Abuse of disability is at its worst point ever and this is just me doing my bit

@GinDaddyRedux

Hmm *@Maskwoes* why would you tie up any part of the health system in your righteous anger?

Why not communicate better with hospitals in future and explain to them your issues?

Oh, you're back are you?

the casual disregard for PTSD

One comment received at the hospital after I'd detailed my abuse was "so you haven't actually been in a war zone then?" Dismissing PTSD, dismissing rape and dismissing mental health. It's 2020 ffs.

Back tonight.

I think it’s ok for them to ask for a reason

I was amenable to that. I was ok saying I have PTSD. To outright deny my request for privacy, to force me to detail trauma both in public and three times, and then to still force me to wear a mask flies in the face of common decency for another human being. That it was done by HCPs leaves me incredulous and so very, very, sad.

The mask really isn't the primary issue here; the treatment of a patient is and the lack of basic understanding and empathy. I'm astounded so many cannot see this.

Does anyone have a link to the actual legislation?

Seemingly not, and I've spent hours looking. The lawandfiction lawyer I've been liaising with insists my exemption was legally correct too.

@SimplySteveRedux

Between this and the victim-shaming one from the woman who was sedated extra so her body could be used as a lesson to someone training during a procedure,

Do you have a link to the latter, and it's a disgusting practice, used to be very common, no idea the prevalence now. Of course apologists say "but how else are students supposed to learn". Infuriating.

The thread has been deleted.

Cancel the cheque

Oh mate

I should really hide the thread...but i want to see what happens

@Maskwoes

Yeah I'm back. What my status on this forum has to do with this topic is anyone's guess, but it makes a great distraction from the point I made.

Glowbuggy You do realise care homes have been forced to accept covid positive patients don't you? Obviously they are not wearing masks either. Many people working in care homes have died but apparently you're only risking your life if you work in a hospital?!

Posts on this thread are terrible. OP, you were treated terribly. But you know that.

Coronavirus doesn't mean we should throw compassion, or respect out of the window. Mask or no mask, you should have only have had to give one explanation in private.

@Maskwoes

the casual disregard for PTSD

One comment received at the hospital after I'd detailed my abuse was "so you haven't actually been in a war zone then?" Dismissing PTSD, dismissing rape and dismissing mental health. It's 2020 ffs.

Back tonight.

I've had that, too (I have PTSD myself). Look how veterans get treated, though, also like shit.

Firstly, so many people repeating things, rtft!

Secondly, I believe in pursuing things legally where there has been discrimination. So many people in Britain put up with being treated like crap, and I am glad you haven't put up with this OP.

Please tell PALS, the nursing lead at the MI unit, the CCG who commissions the MI unit, and your local Healthwatch about your experience. Make sure you mention the prominent lanyard and the panic attack they caused you to have afterwards.

Ideally ask them if the staff's action and your treatment meets the standards they would expect, and how they will make sure it doesn't happen to anyone else. If you don't want them to contact you then say that very clearly but make the points anyway.

If you can bring yourself to contact them it's one small step towards making sure it doesn't happen again to you or to anyone else.

but I would be pushing now for further evidence based trauma therapy to help you be able to wear a mask. Masks protect you, you deserve to be able to be protected and wear a mask

Fucking hell! I've seen it all now. Let's start with the total ignorance of how stretched and, in some areas, non-existent, the mental health services are in this country. The ignorance around PTSD is just, how to even start? Then there's just missing the entire fucking point that some people cannot wear a mask. AT ALL. EVER.

I'm also still wondering what happens with patients who come in with lower face trauma. When I tripped my lower face was a bloody mess - I need two cuts about my lip stitched, my face x-rayed to visual the nose break and check for other breaks, my face cleaned off as I fell on a path. I had to breath out of my mouth and was bleeding a lot out of my nose and just below, the mask would have been soaked.

Lots of situations in A&E settings where patients can use masks or visors.

I appreciate you were upset by the situation, and I'm sorry for your experiences. However... health care providers aren't one homogeneous mob, they may have been dealing with dozens of people and it is quite usual for patients to have to reiterate things to different doctors and nurses because doctors and nurses don't have enough time in the day to tell every colleague about every patient/write down/read or remember every detail of everything their colleagues tell them. They are only human and may have their own traumas to deal with (like seeing countless patients dying, having to break bad news to loved ones etc) or may have had to deal with complaints from other patients that your not wearing a mask has raised. As I say, I'm sorry for your experiences, but you not wearing a mask does potentially put other people at risk and you seem completely unable to take this into account. The idea of suing about it is absurd. Suing the nhs should be if there has been gross misconduct, botched surgery or similar, not because you are offended.

They are only human and may have their own traumas to deal with (like seeing countless patients dying, having to break bad news to loved ones etc) or may have had to deal with complaints from other patients that your not wearing a mask has raised.

This will make me sound like a complete heartless bastard, but they chose their roles and the above isn't my problem, shouldn't affect my standard of care or their professionalism.

Look, I opened the door by explaining PTSD. That should've been enough, once, the refusal to accede to my request for privacy is diabolical and breathtakingly unprofessional - I think if I pushed this part of the issue the person would be at risk of dismissal. But that's not my agenda.

@Maskwoes

They are only human and may have their own traumas to deal with (like seeing countless patients dying, having to break bad news to loved ones etc) or may have had to deal with complaints from other patients that your not wearing a mask has raised.

This will make me sound like a complete heartless bastard, but they chose their roles and the above isn't my problem, shouldn't affect my standard of care or their professionalism.

Look, I opened the door by explaining PTSD. That should've been enough, once, the refusal to accede to my request for privacy is diabolical and breathtakingly unprofessional - I think if I pushed this part of the issue the person would be at risk of dismissal. But that's not my agenda.

It doesn't make you sound like a heartless bastard. And when anyone who starts with 'I appreciate you are upset at . . . ', they're not at all, it's one of the most passive aggressive victim-blaming lines around and only a fool can't see through such patronising twaddle.

@Maskwoes

So I've been debating this within myself all day, I've now emailed the responsible Trust, I will escalate to CCG, MP and NHS Ombudsman if I have to. If I get to Ombudsman stage I'll involve the press because it's fucking ridiculous by that point and they deserve the shit. If I get to Ombudsman stage I'll be looking at formal legal action with Case Law in mind.

I'm too fucking angry to let this drop.

It feels like this was always your intention.

I hope you get the conclusion that you are hoping for, and help for what has previously been done to you.

rufus well I think we have very conclusively proved that cancel the cheque is still ruining mumsnet!

No idea why the OP is still sticking it out...I'd be long gone

Speaking of which I'm off to deregister again then...

well I think we have very conclusively proved that cancel the cheque is still ruining mumsnet!

We absolutely have

And the irony of my initial (MISTAKEN....I KNOW I WAS MISTAKEN) post being about not checking all of a poster posts is not lost On me 😀

I think the OP sounds like a reasonable respectful person who has, despite everything they have endured, retained enough self-respect to see when they have been treated like crap.

Good on you, OP.