Do people in general still make assumptions about men and women and their roles?

[hugeginglass]

I have an example - my son worked in a legal office answering the phones. He did this for a summer to cover for holidays. Most of the telephonists were women. At least twice or three times a day he was asked if he was a solicitor - none of the women were ever asked this. Now he works as an estate agent and people of a certain age - especially the more elderly clients seem to believe what he says (even though he is a rookie) more than the word of a woman who has been doing the job for 30 years. I still think certain assumptions are made about women in the workplace that it is a wee part time job (and in some cases it is). However, by the same token for many women it is a career. What are your thoughts? I have had the same by the way - I say something to a client and then they want to talk to my male boss and he tells them the exact same thing!

Are you for real? If anything stereotypes are getting worse right now. Of course we’re stereotyped by sex, from day one. Some of them are based in biological roles, but they’re unnecessarily restricted.

I'm a Consultant and do lots of ward rounds with junior doctors
To every patient I will say "Hello I'm Dr CandC the Consultant looking after you"
If I have male junior doctors with me I'll still be called "nurse" and the patient will inevitably look to them for an opinion.
It's a daily thing!

So much! Outside of work too. If our house isn’t up to scratch in terms of cleaning or organisation, visitors will ask if I’ve been busy. No expectation whatsoever that DH might be responsible for that side of things. Pisses me right off.

See also being held responsible for any invitations or organising anything by DH’s family simply because I am a woman and “penis portions”.

Check out the guardian today for how societal expectations have meant that women have disproportionality been hit, getting less time to work than men due to taking on more of the childcare

Yes they do, all the time. Welcome to patriarchy.

Yep. All myself, my female family and female friends in professional roles get it.

The worse are from those in your own profession who don't believe you are as experienced as you are. Some of this is racism and not just sexism. So the female solicitor I know who is head of an employment practice is not believed and thus us partly because of her ethnicity.

My white partner is not believed he is the father of our toddler if he goes out alone. When she was in a pushchair if he was paying for something and not holding on to the pushchair often someone white would start asking who had left a child. If he is sitting/standing next to some random brown woman of any ethnicity, strangers will question her on "her daughter".

plunkplunkfizz exactly this. My friend (who actually has a fantastic managerial job in the NHS, but still does everything at home) told me that I'm a good housewife! Nothing against housewives - would love to stay at home but I have worked my whole life. Also, because I still have three adult sons living at home who refuse to iron, I have stopped doing ironing. My mum is worried it will reflect badly on me because they have crushed shirts. Eh, they are adults!

Can vouch that nearly everyday at work as a doctor, I'm assumed to be a nurse. I was trying to resuscitate someone the other night and a man wouldn't stop coming up to me to tell me I need to replace his tv remote that he'd broken. I get people turn to me on ward round when asked a question they don't know and say "I don't know, do you nurse?" And worst personally is when people are surprised at my competency at getting IV access "Im surprised you got it in when the doctors didn't" ... Just because other colleagues failed and I'm not a man - I back my cannula skills and have no option but to smile sweetly but it really grates on me. As does "lady doctor" it's also made me realise and totally respect my lovely nursing colleagues as they're spoken to like crap sometimes

Even inpatient referral forms at work are addressed to Dr/Mr. So our female medical and surgery consultants are just assumed to not exist. It's a real joke.

@stitchandbitch101

Can vouch that nearly everyday at work as a doctor, I'm assumed to be a nurse. I was trying to resuscitate someone the other night and a man wouldn't stop coming up to me to tell me I need to replace his tv remote that he'd broken. I get people turn to me on ward round when asked a question they don't know and say "I don't know, do you nurse?" And worst personally is when people are surprised at my competency at getting IV access "Im surprised you got it in when the doctors didn't" ... Just because other colleagues failed and I'm not a man - I back my cannula skills and have no option but to smile sweetly but it really grates on me. As does "lady doctor" it's also made me realise and totally respect my lovely nursing colleagues as they're spoken to like crap sometimes

Even inpatient referral forms at work are addressed to Dr/Mr. So our female medical and surgery consultants are just assumed to not exist. It's a real joke.

I feel angry on your behalf!

This happens a lot, I'm mid 30s and I had a trainee who was much older than me and male and at an open evening lots of people directed questions to him, he just kept repeating you need to ask ms x that as I don't know and in the end he's just relay the question to me in front of them.
The other recent example was buying a new drill and the woman serving me said make sure you give home the warranty. When I replied it's actually for me, she said will you be able to manage it it's very powerful to which my dd said I'm sure she can handle it if a man can she does everything else. Trouble is she was about the same age as me!

Also why do men give unsolicited advice without asking?!

Yes, of course. If anything, it’s getting worse.

Yep. The patriarchy is alive and well.
It's never been a more appropriate time to dust off your feminism.
I have a male colleague who repeatedly thinks that either I or my female colleague should set up and organise meetings for him. We're not even in the same team but there are no little women in his own work area to do it for him. He looks genuinely surprised when we refuse.

Oh yes. One of my favourite examples was I was working at a conference on my companies booth. Bloke wanders up 'I want to talk to someone about ' me: 'Absolutely, thats something I can help you with, what's your question' him: 'No, I need to speak to an expert on this' me (who did all the work on this product and knows it upside down and backwards) 'Yes, that would be me'. And he would not have it - eventually one of my customers who had been involved in the project (and had been listening as we'd been chatting before I saw this bloke approach) stopped laughing and came over and did the ' oh, you're in good hands with CMOT, she's my co-author on the paper on this' thing. And then apparently I could be listened to.

Also, no one ever asks DH who is looking after DS when he travels for work, or asks how he manages being away. Especially when ds was smaller, I got asked this all the time

Yes, of course, all the time. Are you visiting from another planet ?

This thread is depressingly accurate.

My brother in law used to say to people that I worked in admin in the NHS. I was the manager of a clinical team, a clinical specialist and part of the senior management team in a secure unit. He just couldn't get his head around a) that a woman would work with offenders and b) that I was a manager 😂

I think gender stereotyping is getting worse, rather than broadening our minds and beliefs as to what makes a man or a woman, people think they need to identify as the opposite sex to justify their preferences. It's madness. So it's only going to get worse if we carry on with this idea of gender identity.

Yeah. I also get the snarkiness when I give men clear instructions about what I want (n a work setting), like "ooh who does she think she is" and I know if a man gave the exact same instructions in the same way they would respect him for being clear and decisive.

This is awful:
Even inpatient referral forms at work are addressed to Dr/Mr. So our female medical and surgery consultants are just assumed to not exist.!!
And I have realised I didn't even know what you call a female "Mr" doctor. Is it Ms? Also, what would Bill Clinton have been if Hilary had won? First Gentleman? So weird, 50 % of the population are like an afterthought!

I’m a surgeon in a predominantly male speciality. I can forgive my more elderly patients who struggle with the concept that yes I am their surgeon and yes I am a woman.

What has saddened me more is the young female staff members being really amazed that I operate. It’s sweet because it’s said in a ‘wow a woman does that’ but also they’re in their twenties! I did get annoyed though when one said “oh they let you operate” ffs No one lets me do anything I’m good at my job!

I once had a father who refused to have his son in my top set class, it was against their religion to take instructions from a woman! The thing that really annoyed me was that the Senior Staff took him seriously and looked for ways to accommodate his prejudice by having me teach the set 2 and a suitable teacher would take set 1.

@IfNotNowThen2 I’m Miss. my own fucking hospital couldn’t work out that I was a surgeon and sent a five year service letter to medicine then anaesthetics then gynaecology before it eventually found its way to orthopaedics!

As an aside My sister in law is a senior manager in the NHS but tends to tell people she's an administrator to save the lecture about how all managers are crap and should be sacked.

I was a civil servant. Had several meetings where I was the only female in the room and was frequently expected to get drinks etc. Then when I refused as called uppity by my (male) Manager. He also had a habit of checking anything I suggested with a male colleague in a similar role to see if he agreed. He was great though and would frequently say "I don't know about that, ask Sec she's the expert".

I was also given all the traditional female type initiatives to manage - kids, maternity stuff - just because I had a vagina and it was assumed I was interested in babies and pregnancy. I know fuck all about either and didn't want children, didn't like young children and was totally out of my depth and was planning on quitting until someone had the foresight to move me into the actual area that I was a specialist in.

Thanks Moreisnnogedag
It's really a very odd thing, more women not being surgeons when you think about it, as women tend to have much smaller hands. I think I would feel safer with someone with small hands tinkering about in my innards!

Urghhhhhh all the time. I did a traditional blokes job in medicine for many years and I was the only woman on the team.
I was asked constantly by consultants, patients, sundry other professionals where the "regular" staff were and I'd say I am the regular staff.
Then they would want to be booked back in with one of the men because a lot of older people don't believe women are competent or have smaller brains or something.
When they got to know me they would ask for me though because I listened and empathised more.