Do people in general still make assumptions about men and women and their roles?

[hugeginglass]

I have an example - my son worked in a legal office answering the phones. He did this for a summer to cover for holidays. Most of the telephonists were women. At least twice or three times a day he was asked if he was a solicitor - none of the women were ever asked this. Now he works as an estate agent and people of a certain age - especially the more elderly clients seem to believe what he says (even though he is a rookie) more than the word of a woman who has been doing the job for 30 years. I still think certain assumptions are made about women in the workplace that it is a wee part time job (and in some cases it is). However, by the same token for many women it is a career. What are your thoughts? I have had the same by the way - I say something to a client and then they want to talk to my male boss and he tells them the exact same thing!

My DH is a pilot and you should hear the disgusting comments made about female pilots - ranging from oh we’ve got a lady driver, hope we don’t crash to are you properly qualified, I hope you know what you’re doing 🙄 when DH was a lower rank people assumed he was in charge because he was a man if the captain was a woman. That said, also goes that people make a lot of assumptions about male cabin crew!

@IfNotNowThen2 exactly, typically smaller and better at delicate tasks (with the exception of me with huge hands and dyspraxia!)

I know fuck all about either and didn't want children, didn't like young children and was totally out of my depth and was planning on quitting until someone had the foresight to move me into the actual area that I was a specialist in.

Someone will be along in a minute to ask what you’re doing on Mumsnet.

@plunkplunkfizz yep, any minute now....

YANBU. I am also sick of seeing male colleagues who've somehow been promoted way above their level of competence running to their (less well paid) female colleagues in a flap because they're incapable of problem solving or making decisions for themselves, then taking credit for their ideas. Happens all the time.

Oh yes yes yes welcometohell!
See also, men who are allowed to be disorganised and not know how to use the processes everyone else does, and not only does no one judge them on it, they get promoted to better jobs where a woman someone else does the tedious organising.
Try doing that as a woman..if you are young you will be seen as an airhead and never get promoted. If you are middle aged-well! Your very existence is to make life easier for everyone else so if you can't even do the basics then don't let the door hit you in your ample rear end come the next wave of redundancies!
I realised quite young that men are allowed to be scatty yet creative but women are really not. The world relies on the quiet, behind the scenes organisational skills of women.
It makes me angrier than I had realised...!

I'm a farmer and my shepherd is also female. We don't get any of this.
Except for one time when I looked at quad bikes at a trade stand and the rep thought I was looking for a 'toy'. I posted this on MN and I was accused of being over sensitive. On MN!!!

I'm selling a house now my mum's in a home. I own it jointly with DP (we own everything jointly) but I do the admin on this because it was for my mum.
I contacted the estate agent, met him and he's never spoken to DP. We even needed to send a photo of DP holding his passport to verify who he was. Apart from that all DP has done is sign the forms.
But still all correspondence is to Mr DP and Mrs think. Their online hub for us to track viewings etc says
Hi Mr. DP, welcome to your personal selling hub.

It's as though I don't exist.
Very annoying.

When I was a lecturer students used to constantly refer to me/email me as 'Miss Writer' rather than Dr. I didn't pay much heed - I encouraged them to call me by my first name - until the year that I ran a module with three graduate teaching assistants, all male, none of them yet with their PhD. On the feedback forms students called them 'Dr X' without fail, but still mostly called me 'Miss Writer'. I gave the lectures and it was clear that I was the module leader, but most of the students, it seemed, just assumed that as the only woman I was the least qualified person.

I’m married to someone who works as part of a community. On meeting members I was asked several times - “do you work too?”.

Yes I fucking do... I also massively out earn my husband but don’t let that stop you painting me as the little housewife 😏

Also interestingly, I was at an event and I noticed the men were introduced with their titles ie Rev Dr whatever and the women introduced by their first names.

Yes. It's particularly irritating me at the moment. I've fairly recently started a new job. I've not been a student for a few years, but all the male staff and quite a few of the students assume I'm a student. I thought they were just absent-minded but apparently all of the men who had my job before me were recognised as staff. Like you, @Hardbackwriter, there's an assumption I can't be 'Dr' and must be 'Miss'.

A senior colleague has let me know that she's been working there for over a decade and still some of her male colleagues deliberately demote her from Prof to Dr, then if she complains they imply she's being petty and they were just absent minded.

Funnily enough they don't struggle to call their male colleagues by the appropriate title ...

Also interestingly, I was at an event and I noticed the men were introduced with their titles ie Rev Dr whatever and the women introduced by their first names.

Oh god, now you remind me, I've had that happen as well. Even at an event where I was the key note speaker.

It does surprise me sometimes how I miss things like this until I read so,some else's experience. It's sad how we are so used to these little things that we ignore them....

Yep I work in construction industry so I am in a minority but it can be tough, senior men (construction managers, developers, senior engineers) and clients are worst at making assumptions and having prejudices, guys on site are generally ok although I've had the odd patronising comment.

I once had a meeting with a stakeholder where I had taken my admin assistant into the meeting with me because there was going to be an event component to the discussion that was going to be coordinating. The man we were meeting with, constantly addressed all questions to my admin assistant because he was both male and older than me. My staff member was a star though, and after a few times of it happening he said, “I don’t know why you keep asking me! She’s in charge of this.”

*that he was going to be coordinating.

I agree it’s getting worse.

As a lawyer and business owner I’ve lost count of the number of times it’s been assumed that its my DHs business and that I’m a housewife.

I live in France. I'm a single mother with a full time job. A new neighbour asked me: "So, what does hubby do?"
He didn't once ask what I did.

This never stops.
Early on in my career, I’d be mistaken for a college student doing a summer job and then get questions when I’d say, no, I’m the lead engineer on this program. The questions would be “oh, how long have you been working in the field? Do you have enough experience for something like this?”

Later on, I joined my contract negotiator as the tech expert on some negotiations. I got to the room first from our side and the contractor party was already there and thought I was a secretary come to offer them drinks/snacks. They just assumed and started to order tea, Diet Coke, etc. I honestly remember bursting into laughter and saying No, I’m the scientific advisor here to shred your proposal.

Even more recently (post 2011), when I made Director level, I had a visitor, some CTO from a Space company (won’t say which), who wanted to meet “Dr Plan” and he came in while I was stood in the outer offices of my suite talking with my secretary. My secretary is a nice older man. Yes, I was mistaken as my own secretary. No excuse though because on our website, as a director my picture and a short bio is published for anyone to see.

Even inpatient referral forms at work are addressed to Dr/Mr. So our female medical and surgery consultants are just assumed to not exist. It's a real joke.

Is the Dr/Mr thing not just a way of differentiating between physicians and surgeons? I'm sure I read an interesting article about the history of physicians and surgeons years ago.

Edit - I've googled and found the article in question.

www.sgu.edu/news-and-events/surgeon-titles-dr-vs-mr/

Yes OP it still happens. Notice the roles given to women in the cabinet, all those where there is only dirty work and no chance of political credit.

@Buccanarab

Well yes sometimes Mr and Dr is a way of differentiating between the seniority and specialisation of medical professionals. It varies country to country.

The point is what if you are female and therefore not a Mr. ? It assumes that no female could possibly be sufficiently senior or professional to deserve her own title.

I can’t even tell you how furious this thread is making me. I work in education and I’m currently training to be a career guidance advisor. I hope I’m able to guide my young people to be whatever the want, actually, I want to guide them to be more than they thought they could be!!!

Yes it does, my job is phone based in finance and the amount of men I have had call me young lady (I am not), and told me that I obviously don’t know what I am talking about (I do it’s just not what they want to hear) is unbelievable. I have even had people refuse to speak to me and ask to speak with a male colleague.

It’s not just at work though my husband said he couldn’t work late as I am working evenings from home so he has to look after our 2 young children and my bil said it’s not your job what is she doing 🤬

Also, I have a unisex name. I worked in the aeronautical field for years. When I used to turn up to airports (consultant role), men seemed to be quite put out that I was a woman. "No, we thought Sam was coming." "I am Sam". Dickheads.