Do people in general still make assumptions about men and women and their roles?

[hugeginglass]

I have an example - my son worked in a legal office answering the phones. He did this for a summer to cover for holidays. Most of the telephonists were women. At least twice or three times a day he was asked if he was a solicitor - none of the women were ever asked this. Now he works as an estate agent and people of a certain age - especially the more elderly clients seem to believe what he says (even though he is a rookie) more than the word of a woman who has been doing the job for 30 years. I still think certain assumptions are made about women in the workplace that it is a wee part time job (and in some cases it is). However, by the same token for many women it is a career. What are your thoughts? I have had the same by the way - I say something to a client and then they want to talk to my male boss and he tells them the exact same thing!

Oh, I could go on and on. Another time, I went to get a computer fixed with my ex. The guy saw the screen saver was a plane. He kept talking to my ex about how he was a private pilot. My ex didn't know the nose of a plane from its tail. I explained that I'd spent ten years teaching air traffic controllers and pilots and he ignored me and kept talking to the ex (who also couldn't use a sodding computer which was why we were there in the first place). I'd never known anything like it.

Another one, we have a long wheel base camper van. It's mine, I drive it, no one else does. All men talk to my husband about it, ask him questions about it, even when I tell them it's my van and answer the questions. When I reverse park it, men often look surprised and comment on it. Some fella actually stopped me in my old car to congratulate me on my parking

@FrenchtoEnglish can I just say that I am totally in awe of what you used to do for a living.

So many times. I worked as a digital manager at a well known jewellers. Despite driving above target growth at the lowest cost they've ever seen, I was pushed out because a new male starter claimed I'd bullied him.

My crime? To tell him if he continued to watch videos at work, on the work network he wouldn't be passing his probation. FML

Also, personally I rent a property, I've been doing it for years ever since we needed to move quickly and found we couldn't sell. Anyways, so so often when showing round prospective tenants I get asked 'sorry, who are you, do you work for the agency?' knowing full well they hadn't come through an agency.

I've even had one (large body building knuckle dragging male) whose demeanor changed so much after I advised him, no I'm the landlord, he swiftly skulked off out the house before commenting 'it wasn't what he was looking for'

I did enjoy that he caught his lovely jacket on the fresh paint on his way out

I recently employed a male assistant in my tiny office (only 2 of us). He's a complete novice, I'm training him.

I'd say 90% of the clients who walk through the door turn straight to him to ask questions, despite the fact that my desk is actually slightly closer to the door. The 10% of clients who don't do this either know me personally or are asking some sort of admin type question.

To his credit, new co-worker says he's just going to stick a sign to the front of his desk that says 'I haven't a clue, ask Occa'.

In my first week back from maternity leave I went for a vape break and met a recently promoted manager in my department. Lovely young guy, he asked about my baby and said they'd just had their second. We exchanged congratulations and I asked if his wife was back at work yet. "Oh no, we agreed no point having kids if one of you isn't at home raising them and it makes sense it's her" (not verbatim but pretty much). I was still struggling with PND and was working full time. To be fair I think my face gave away my anger and upset at his insensitivity and he had the good grace to look embarrassed. I made a comment along the lines of it's not so easy when it's the mum who's the breadwinner. He avoided me for a few months after that.

Also got complimented on being able to reverse my sizeable car into a narrow work space in one movement while being assessed by my male colleagues. I doubt they watch each other then back slap for being able to park their own bloody vehicles.

I was on a plane a year or so ago (BA) where both pilots were female. I've been on a few where one was female but that was the first time I've been on one where both were. It shouldn't be a talking point should it?

I think it's quite interesting that people ask for female GPs but look slightly askance when a consultant is female - like the "real" work has to be done by a man.

@occa

I recently employed a male assistant in my tiny office (only 2 of us). He's a complete novice, I'm training him.

I'd say 90% of the clients who walk through the door turn straight to him to ask questions, despite the fact that my desk is actually slightly closer to the door. The 10% of clients who don't do this either know me personally or are asking some sort of admin type question.

To his credit, new co-worker says he's just going to stick a sign to the front of his desk that says 'I haven't a clue, ask Occa'.

The only man in my team at work is one of our two administrators - people talk to him and only him in meetings all the time even though he's often just there to take notes and so doesn't say anything himself.

Ugh I’d forgotten all these stupid things people have said over the years and how frustrating it is! I remember when I mentioned my career choice to a consultant and he asked if I realised orthopaedics used power tools and when I said of course he apologised for not realising I was a lesbian. Why I did not complain I don’t know.

Or the amount of times someone looks to my junior for confirmation of what I’ve said just because they’re male.

I will caveat this with saying that all the consultants (all male) in my department don’t treat me any differently at all.

@SecretSpAD Thanks! I think I've made it sound more impressive than it was! I taught aeronautical English to pilots and ATCs (they have to speak English on the frequency and it's pretty technical stuff... or they need emergency / medical langage etc.) If they said on an airplane: "Is there a pilot onboard, I wouldn't put my hand up ;-)

I've just thought of one that is ongoing. My parents have both died this year, and though my brother and I are joint executors I am doing everything. The sale is going through, and even though I have set everything up with the conveyancers, am the only one in contact with them etc they keep sending documents back to my brother (whose details they obviously need as joint executor, but has only done one thing to confirm he agreed the sale), and have put my name with his address on correspondence. I have now complained 3 times about this, and even so they sent things to him again this week

I would agree with a pp that it's getting worse.

I work in a fairly male dominated area, one particularly sexist dickhead refuses to speak to me directly and will instead talk to the man on my team who sits near me about things he knows I'm working on. That is infuriating on its own and I've called him out on it so many times, but the guy he talks to doesn't say anything any plays along then gets annoyed with me when I don't play along and talk to sexist dickhead through him. Even my female director just shrugs it off as 'oh you know what he's like'.

My mum still gets annoyed that me and sil don't automatically have tea on the table for the men getting home from work... when we've both been at work all day to.

I've also had to correct people when talking to my dd, like when dd was playing with a doctors set (she was 4 and wanted to be a space doctor) and my grandmother said 'oh are you going to be a nurse?'. DGM was genuinely aghast at the thought dd wanted to be a doctor because that's a mans job.

I must be one of the offenders since I never notice this stuff at all.

Tradesman who ask, is your husband in love.
I don't have a husband or a partner, I just reply, no he died a few weeks ago. That properly shuts them up for the whole day.

This thread is depressingly accurate.

At one place I worked which was generally nice, I literally had to refuse to take meeting minutes at one point because I realized I'd done it for weeks and weeks. As one of the most senior managers there and the only female in a team of about 20. In an org that bemoaned why they didn't have more females in the technical management track. It was the sly,non obvious kind of embedded sexism that I barely noticed until I started paying a bit more attention / got so senior and I noticed it with more senior eyes

@derxa

I'm a farmer and my shepherd is also female. We don't get any of this. Except for one time when I looked at quad bikes at a trade stand and the rep thought I was looking for a 'toy'. I posted this on MN and I was accused of being over sensitive. On MN!!!

Hasn't happened to me as our auctioneers are young and not too old-fashioned in their thinking, but I've heard quite a few tales from women who were ignored by (male) auctioneers when trying to bid, or a big thing was made out of it.

A few times in the past I've sold sheep privately, and the buyer addresses all the questions to my husband. On one occasion he got so fed up of redirecting everything to me, he took the baby and walked off, just to make a point!

I was refused a job, which was given to an equally skilled but male worker, on the grounds I wouldn't be tough enough. Funnily enough, the lad didn't last so long!

The only anecdote I have is about someone projecting this non-existent problem into my life.

I published some research with 3 mail authors. I was expressly asked to be interviewed as the only female. The researcher said something like "Oh we have such problems with women not promoting themselves and letting male colleagues take credit." She projected that onto my life.

What bollocks. 2 of the male coauthors pointedly said to me they were too shy to be interviewed. Other male coauthor is the only extrovert in our team. I ended up uncomfortably fielding questions on technical aspects I wasn't master of (my own BSing, I guess). That should be last time I ever let someone project their own Agenda onto my life decisions.

Yep. It's always assumed that I'm the secretary - it's my business, I own with DH, though he's not actively involved. I've had staff go behind my back ask DH for favours rather than ask me. Our old solicitor used to insist he was present for every meeting, which he never cared about. Solicitor was quickly replaced... It's infuriating and it's everywhere.

My MD used to refer to me as "my lady in accounts". I am a qualified accountant. When I first joined the Company, the staff used to think of me as a secretary and want me to do all these menial tasks for them. I said no and they were horrified. I had to stand my ground. Nowadays, if I say "jump", they ask "how high".

For the first time EVER, my MD referred to me in an email as "my Finance Manager". I think even he is getting the message now.

Hasn't happened to me as our auctioneers are young and not too old-fashioned in their thinking, but I've heard quite a few tales from women who were ignored by (male) auctioneers when trying to bid, or a big thing was made out of it.
Their money is as good as anyone else's. I can't believe an auctioneer would ignore a bid- that's bloody stupid. I'm usually buying a stock tup. I'll go round the pens and mark my catalogue. The breeders will usually come out with a load of old shit. It might be patronising but I just ignore it. My shepherd will go round on her own as well and make some choices. Then we confab and sit together at the auction. It's great fun.

A few times in the past I've sold sheep privately, and the buyer addresses all the questions to my husband. On one occasion he got so fed up of redirecting everything to me, he took the baby and walked off, just to make a point! My DH has nothing to do with the sheep. Again my shepherd and I do all the negotiating.

Argh yes, where I worked I was always assumed to be the receptionist (we didn't have one) if I answered the phone. If the men managed to stop their very important work to answer it (this was rare, phone answering was almost always left to the women which really wound me up - we were all on the same level) they'd be assumed to be a manager.

One caller said rather rudely she wasn't sure prepared to discuss her issue with admin, it needed to be with management. I was rather curt when I advised that she was indeed speaking with management.

My mum still gets annoyed that me and sil don't automatically have tea on the table for the men getting home from work... when we've both been at work all day to

When we broke the news to MIL that I was having her first grandchild her first words were How will you manage his meals when you're in hospital?

When we told her, years later, of my promotion to Head of a major department her first words were Were there no married men who needed that job?

Rosemary Franklin worked on the DNA research but was omitted from the Nobel prize, apparently it can't be awarded to three people so the two men got it, Crick and Watson.

Although I find being a woman can work in your favour. If I’m stuck with some bore at a conference or reception, I say I work for X organisation and don’t give my job title, and they move on quickly, as they think I do admin or am someone’s PA.