To think in MN land no one should have a dog?

[bluesapphirestars]

The only acceptable dog is a rescue, with a few exceptions, and rescues won’t rehome to people who WOTH or who have children, so that immediately rules most of mn out.

The only other acceptable alternative is to make the dog more than a pet, it’s a lifestyle, involving intensive breed research and so on. Again, not conducive to homes with children.

So in short - the verdict on MN is no dog.

(Semi light hearted!)

But clara surely you see the difference between these two hypothetical sorts of posts:

St bernards are giant breeds and all sorts of really expensive vet bills will come along with that. You won’t be able to let him upstairs and you’ll need to convert your car if you want to take him out. They need all sorts of stimulation and exercise and they are prone to - - - . To be honest I really wouldn’t recommend them for your circumstances. Have you thought about a (insert more suitable breed) because ..

And

Another fucking stupid OP who has watched Beethoven! I despair of the mentality on here. Get a goldfish!

Now obviously they are exaggerated to make a point but this is what I am saying: which do you think might have more impact on somebody? (And yes, I’d never recommend a St Bernard as a first time family pet, gorgeous as they are!)

@BertieBotts

Doggy daycare is new though, isn't it? I'd certainly never heard of it before a couple of years ago when we thought we might get a job and I started following trainers etc on YouTube. But I assumed it was an American thing because I'd never seen it in the UK. Now more recently a friend of mine who started out as a dog trainer is running one and seems to be quite successful. It seems like a good idea to me actually! Leaving a dog alone at home for hours just isn't fair on them and feels like quite an outdated thing to do now. It's good that there are new options. I hope it's cheaper than child daycare, though.

Nope.

It depends on whether you live in or near a wealthy area. I started investigating having a dog about 5 years ago and there was a doggy day care centre a few miles away in a rich area. Looking 2 years later their business expanded and more day care centres have opened.

It isn't cheap and like with childcare you need to have regular days in the week.

The default position on here is that you are a bad dog owner. The assumption is that you have an out of control dog if it acts like a normal dog off lead (saying hello to other dogs and some people but coming back when called).

The default is that all dogs that are not rescues are bred by a puppy farm - both mine and my brothers loved, loving happy, well looked after, never home alone pedigree dogs came from homes where they had a female and they decided to let her have one or two litters.

We didn't want a staffie. I wanted a small terrier and they wanted a lab. Both of which are great dogs and bring much joy to us all.

Neither of our dogs have ever been aggressive (their lab is as soft as butter, my terrier so sweet but bosses the poor lab around). Sometimes people want a family dog from a family home. They want a guaranteed good nature and a dog that's safe with other dogs. And children.

The MN dog view is so different from the dog world it's just incredible. Best avoided.

@bluesapphirestars

But clara surely you see the difference between these two hypothetical sorts of posts:

St bernards are giant breeds and all sorts of really expensive vet bills will come along with that. You won’t be able to let him upstairs and you’ll need to convert your car if you want to take him out. They need all sorts of stimulation and exercise and they are prone to - - - . To be honest I really wouldn’t recommend them for your circumstances. Have you thought about a (insert more suitable breed) because ..

And

Another fucking stupid OP who has watched Beethoven! I despair of the mentality on here. Get a goldfish!

Now obviously they are exaggerated to make a point but this is what I am saying: which do you think might have more impact on somebody? (And yes, I’d never recommend a St Bernard as a first time family pet, gorgeous as they are!)

Look, what you have said here is fine. Personally, I can understand the exasperation of the second potter's post though. You may be right that it might have less impact, but maybe not.

My issue (ishoos you see? I got 'em by the bashful ) with your thread is that it was set up to mock people for having perfectly legitimate views on people breeding and buying intelligent animals as entertainment, regardless of whether or not they are really able to care for them. Also to mock or express disdain about rescue centres and their strict rules about who can adopt from them. You did not say, oh people won't listen if you don't use the right tone, (which tbh, I don't think is even necessarily a good argument). You implied that people who raised objections about animals being bought and sold were a joke to you. This is what I find seriously objectionable.

@IJustWantSomeBees none of my neighbours with dogs would qualify with any rescue for having a dog as they all have young children and some don't have gardens

All the dogs are from breeders and very friendly. They include non-designer mongrels and bull breeds. One neighbour is out at least 3 times a day walking the family dogs. Another crys if the child in the family goes out.

Would you like to quote where I mocked rescue centres? I don’t think I have.

But the way people treat animals can all too often be appalling

Yes. Agreed. SOME people treat animals appallingly. The problem with SOME posters on MN is that they tar ALL pet owners with the same brush.

Not ALL pets are treated appallingly. Most lead very long, happy lives.

People who liken a chained up, suffering elephant as having the same experiences as a well fed, well exercised, well trained, happy dog cannot be taken seriously.

I do not, in any way, advocate for puppy mills - I fact I have reported 3. I do not visit zoos. I don’t believe wild animals should be caged. The TV adverts about the suffering of elephants, donkeys, bears..... are stomach churning and make me ashamed to be a part of the inhuman (human) race.

I believe animal shelters have it right. No dog should be adopted by someone who is going to leave it on its own for 8 hours or more everyday. The history of these dogs is unknown so absolutely should not be placed in a house with young children.

The hysteria surrounding dog owners taking their dog for a walk is, sometimes, astounding on MN.

We all agree that unruly dogs should be kept on lead around other dogs and people. We all agree that poo should be picked up. We all agree that SOME people couldn’t look after a rock, never mind a dog. However, SOME dog owners have very well trained, happy dogs. Yet SOME MN posters don’t seem to appreciate that not ALL animals are suffering.

@SecretSpAD

Outside of MN I don't know anyone who spent years researching a breed. Most people find a litter of pups that they like the look of, go buy one then maybe do a quick google when they get home with it.

The puppy is then given lots of love, toys and playtime and not immediately trained to within an inch of its life - people just figure things out as they go along. Puppy socialisation is done with friendly dogs in a park or on a walk, not hideously expensive classes.

We got our current dog at 2y from a family who had to move suddenly. We just all learned to live with each other and he's got a few quirks that need managing, like a dislike of other dogs (fine he doesn't need to socialise with them) and a propensity to refuse to go for a walk (again fine, he potters in and out all day).

I do think, on MN that some owners have a vision of what a perfect dog is supposed to be like that they lose sight of the fact that each dog has their own personality.

Sorry but I think that's a really irresponsible approach (referencing your first paragraph only) and I don't think that should be normalised or encouraged.

You can't deny that there are vast differences in behaviour between breeds. Nobody should be deciding between, say, a working line collie and a Bassett hound based on looks alone. They fit in with two very different kinds of lifestyles.

This is also how people get JRTs and are shocked that they are destructive and hyper, because they assume they're low maintenance and don't need much exercise due to their size.

@bluesapphirestars

Would you like to quote where I mocked rescue centres? I don’t think I have.

I said your thread was "set up to" mock rescue centres. That does not require me to quote you directly mocking them.

Oh was it indeed!

I must have missed that bit in your 1st post blue.

But @bluesapphirestars you arent saying either of those things.

What you are saying is that if a rescue (who are the experts on dog welfare and safety) deems your home life innappropriate for raising one of their dogs then you will need to buy a puppy. You might be anti-puppy farms but at the same time encouraging people to buy puppies encourages puppy farms. If a rescue deems your home life innapropriate have a think about whether a dog really is suitable for you, just because someone wants a dog doesnt mean they should get a dog

Oh i see it now

@goodwinter what I probably should have explained is that these are not first time owners, but people, like me, who have had loads of dogs throughout their life and are used to them and the can manage any issues.

@D4rwin

Absolutely I don't comment on pet threads because I don't agree with keeping animals alongside the work 24/7 suburban lifestyle that so many people have. Dogs particularly need constant company, plenty of outdoor time and of course shouldn't be left in kennels with strangers and unknown dogs as it's ridiculously stressful for them. Because I love dogs I won't have one.

Totally agree, we would love a dog but we can’t give a dog the life it deserves so we won’t get one

Also people should justify what happens if the dogwalker doesnt turn up, if finances change, when their DC are teens etc.

These are exactly the sort of questions we should be asking ourselves before getting an animal. We should plan for less than ideal scenarios. Obviously some things cant be prevented but at the same you need to workout whether your lifestyle can really accomodate a dog

dish, plenty of competent and loving dog owners would be refused by Dogs Trust, RSPCA, even the much lauded Many Tears.

Just as many loving parents would ironically be turned down to adopt their own children. Two different things.

@RedRumTheHorse

It is not true that they would not qualify with ANY rescue; posters on this thread have adopted their dogs from rescue despite having kids, and I know several people who have adopted despite not having a garden. Your neighbours may not qualify with any rescues in close proximity to them, but that is different. And even if they don’t qualify now, why can’t families wait until their kids are a bit older? Why is it a now or never situation?

I stand by all my above points, the reason we have so many dogs in rescue is because people buy dogs expecting them to fit into their life and their family, as opposed to making space in their lives for the dog. I do not believe that this is an ethical way to view animals and I do not blame rescues for doing their utmost to ensure that dogs go to homes with as small a chance of adoption breakdown as possible

[quote SecretSpAD]@goodwinter what I probably should have explained is that these are not first time owners, but people, like me, who have had loads of dogs throughout their life and are used to them and the can manage any issues. [/quote]
Ah - I'll get back in my box then! Sorry for assuming. I just see it a lot.

@ClaraTheClownfish

PLOT
Here's a plot, you appear to have lost yours.

I agree OP. We inherited a one year old dog from DS’s girlfriend. He was one of a number of dogs on a farm and it didn’t suit him. We’ve had him two years and he’s part of the family. BUT we both teach full time and he’s alone from 8 til 5 On school days with a dog walker coming in. When we go on holidays he goes to a kennel. He’s perfectly happy and isn’t stressed or barky.

I love a dog thread on MN. All the crazies come out to play. Any attempt as being reasonable will be buried under an avalanche of posts telling you you're wrong.

Ah bravo @Thisfucker. So witty. So, so witty. The old "you've got ishoos" argument. Favoured by younger secondary school bullies the world over.

I mean, if you disagree with me, that's fine, but it doesn't follow that someone who isn't on message with the OP's 'funny' thread must be mentally ill to the point that they don't have a clue what's going on.

Making that argument says a lot more about you, (and the op, who did the same, but framed in a 'concerned' head tilty way), than it does me tbh.

I tried to get a rescue dog. I was told that they couldn't allow it worg most dogs they had, due to my children being under a certain age. The only exception was a whippet but I needed a 6 ft fence all sides of the garden, because he murdered his neighbours small dog. It could never be taken off the lead, outdoors. That was not the dog we had in mind for the family, so we ended up buying a puppy. My sil had a dog that she kept crated all day while she went to work. I personally think that people that work all day shouldn't keep a dog crated for hours, especially when they've been in it all night! Its cruel. Now they bought another one, so that's two they leave behind. 🙄 When I had a full time job, I got a cat and cat flap, happy days. Now I'm a stay at home mum, so my dog is never left all day. We always take him to dog friendly places because hes a part of our family.

Yeah but clara you didn’t really respond reasonably so you can’t blame people for responding in kind.