To ask whether you would have and give your DC the COVID-19 vaccine when it becomes available?

[Juniorpromdressqueen]

Apologies if this has been asked before.

I’m very pro-vax, but the thought of such a new vaccine makes me feel a bit nervous. Then again, so does the thought of coronavirus.

I was reading an article in The Atlantic about the vaccine today, and it said 21% of Americans say they won’t have the vaccine and another 30% are undecided, and it made me think about it, because my initial reaction was, “idiots!!” and then I realised that made me hypocritical, as I am nervous myself.

What would you do, if you and your family could have the vaccine at Boots tomorrow?

I genuinely don’t know the answer to that qate and I don’t think there is an answer, not an easy one anyway.

I do think there’s a middle ground, a grey space, between ‘I am an anti vaxxer’ and it was first in the queue to get my kids vaccinated!’

I don’t tend to react adversely to vaccines, so I don’t generally mind having them. But there’s a huge difference between that and being sold a lie that you must have it for this deadly dangerous disease - and actually the disease in question is not dangerous at all to the person having the vaccine.

And if you know there’s a history of vaccine damage in your family, then that makes it an even more difficult decision. Do I mind having a slightly sore arm to protect others - no okay, that’s fine. Would I literally put my child’s life on the line for others - well no, I think that would be asking too much.

What kitty is saying is that she wishes young, young babies to take one for the team. That’s morally wrong, IMO.

*i was first in the queue, not it was first in the queue.

What kitty is saying is that she wishes young, young babies to take one for the team. That’s morally wrong, IMO.

That is not what I said at all.

The statistics only relate to immediate deaths but you can read there aren’t scores of children in hospital or even recorded as having the virus.
Also even without underlying health conditions, children by their very definition are vulnerable in society and as such I believe the vaccine should
be compulsory for healthy adults if anyone, only.

But it amounts to the same thing.

Rubella is not a harmful disease in young children and it isn’t harmful for boys/men at all, in the slightest.

The only people it harms are pregnant women, or rather their unborn babies.

Therefore it used to be the case that teenage girls had the vaccination to ensure protection throughout their childbearing years. This made sense.

Now the system is different. That would be fine if it was totally risk free and it is not.

I don’t tend to react adversely to vaccines, so I don’t generally mind having them. But there’s a huge difference between that and being sold a lie that you must have it for this deadly dangerous disease - and actually the disease in question is not dangerous at all to the person having the vaccine.

You won't know whether it is not dangerous at all to the person having the vaccine. Even if there isn't an immediate effects there could be a long term effect. Viruses have been implicated in cancers and autoimmune disease. Look up Epstein Barr and autoimmune disease or cancer. Look up HPV vaccine. Some of my DD's friends parents wouldn't let their children have that one and I bet their children aren't thanking them now considering that study so far suggests they have a much higher risk of cervical cancer compared with their peers who were vaccinated.

but you can read there aren’t scores of children in hospital or even recorded as having the virus.

That doesn't mean that there won't be long term effects as a result of the virus. It can happen with other viruses even if they aren't immediately ill.

We've always refused the flu jabs, but then they are always pot luck as to whether they're the right one for the type of flu that's going around... it's very early days, though and any vaccine will be rushed. They are in full health, I think I would like to wait a little longer and make sure vulnerable older family members are covered.

I was talking generally rather than specifically about Covid, mrp (great name!) but I do think personally I’d take my chances with Covid at the moment, to the point where I actually would quite like to get it out of the way.

It’s true in general terms there are no easy answers but for adults we usually know or can predict to some extent how we might react to things. Children don’t and so I wouldn’t insist my children had the Covid vaccine given the actual virus looks unlikely to be harmful to them.

It can happen with other viruses even if they aren't immediately ill yes and we choose not to
Vaccinate against everything, as mentioned before chickenpox, the winter flu vaccine.
Make adults take the vaccine and then look at if children still need to be vaccinated

We will be first in the queue. We have a couple of vulnerabilities in the household, however, so that might change our thinking. Whilst I am of the opinion it is a quick timescale to come up with a vaccine, it is also clear that these are extraordinary times, money and expertise are being thrown at it from all sides and there has been no kind of 'woah, I'm a scientist in the vaccine lab and it's not being done right' whistleblow.

Yes, I do believe we need to be vaccinating everyone in as far as possible, including children. It is clear that living with this virus will be complex, invovle multiple lockdowns over relatively short periods of time, time out of schools, heightened risk of illness for some key people (supermarket workers, teachers, taxi drivers, all health professionals) and will prolong the time it takes for normal service to resume within the NHS. The quicker we get a grip, the easier things will be long term. If you want your children educated and a half bouyant economy as they grow, we all need vaccinating as soon as possible.

@cardibach corona viruses have actually been around for nearly a hundred years. Though the first type of corona viruses were 'named' around in the 30's. The name is of course. Latin. I think it means crown? But don't quote me. It's a zoonotic of a chicken. Though we aren't sure what's it's from. We don't think it's has any animal tendencies in it. As a zoonotic usually is two. So for example the Swine flu we 'think' was when a human with the flu. Met a bird with the flu and they met the same pig! Truly fascinating.

They usually come from China. Because they have 'wet markets' in these markets they have many types of animals. Ducks. Bats. Cats. Rats. Snakes. They all mix. Dead and alive. Bats are well know for having diseases. They are trying their hardest to find these bats and type all their diseases. But some of course we don't know yet. Plus the bat population beats us. So of course it's hard. Then the human either ingests the animals that have met with others. Which forms a new virus. That's called the fecal oral route! Yum. It's also unique in the fact that it's a shedding virus. So you could carry it then shed it.

Human corona viruses were found I believe in 61? 62? Something like that. Since then it's developed quick.

It’s true in general terms there are no easy answers but for adults we usually know or can predict to some extent how we might react to things. Children don’t and so I wouldn’t insist my children had the Covid vaccine given the actual virus looks unlikely to be harmful to them.

The vaccine is even less likely to be harmful to them though. There have been cases of children being very sick with covid and certainly some adults including those with no known underlying conditions. In contrast, there haven't been any cases of adults being very sick with the vaccine during clinical trials. Obviously we don't know if there will be any long-term complications with the vaccine but that is exactly the same with the virus. I would rather go with the option that hasn't caused hundreds of thousands of deaths in humans so far.

Sorry. Tagged the wrong person!

@PepperMooMoo that's who my above comment was for.

@Happyheartlovelife No worries! I was a bit confused as that’s what I said (though much more detailed and scientific) bit it’s easily done with quotes etc now.

*yes and we choose not to^
Vaccinate against everything, as mentioned before chickenpox, the winter flu vaccine.

Most countries do choose to vaccinate against chickenpox. The only reason we don't is cost. The same applies to the winter flu vaccine. I pay privately for both.

Actually, another reason people aren't vaccinated for chickenpox in the UK is that their getting chicken pox protects adults against shingles. Ironic that you are actually letting your child suffer from a virus to protect the older population.

It depends if it just the usual injection yes, if it's anything to do with gates and his 'biometric data passport' he can shove it up his microsoft.

Well, I don’t know that it is just cost (probably the main reason though!) it is generally better to have chickenpox as a child and have natural immunity, I think. I’d consider getting a private chickenpox vaccine if my child hadn’t had it by six or seven perhaps.

Me, yes.
The kids no as it’s stands. And I have paid for the chicken pox and men b vaccines privately. But these are proven vaccines and children can get very ill from these diseases.
I am not using a new vaccine on my children for a disease which is highly unlikely to make them ill.

You haven’t answered the main question though blackbird. If you don’t think it’s reasonable to vaccinate children because they aren’t at medical risk themselves what do you do about schools?
Assume that the vaccine is not 100% effective so you’re dependent on herd immunity for full protection (eg 90% of the population having a disease which is 80% effective should be just about enough to ward off onwards transmission). If children aren’t vaccinated en masse then schools may be a huge reservoir of the virus. Possibly not primary schools if some theories are correct about small children not spreading the disease, but certainly secondary schools.

Do you continue to run part time socially distanced schools indefinitely?
Do you open schools as normal and force adult teachers to take the risk?
Do you say that parents are free not to vaccinate their children as long as they home educate?

Well, I don’t know that it is just cost (probably the main reason though!) it is generally better to have chickenpox as a child and have natural immunity, I think. I’d consider getting a private chickenpox vaccine if my child hadn’t had it by six or seven perhaps.

There is no evidence that it is better to have "natural immunity".As I said it is also about cost and protecting older people from shingles as every time an adult is exposed to chicken pox it boosts their immunity and they are less likely to get shingles. They are gradually immunising older people against shingles now and my guess is that when they have finished they will suddenly decide not to let children suffer with chicken pox anymore. I think it outrageous that they have done this in the UK anyway as they haven't in most other countries. I do find it quite ironic that someone who is against vaccinating children for the protection of adults with actually condoning letting them suffer what can be a nasty virus for the protection of adults though.

Actually, another reason people aren't vaccinated for chickenpox in the UK is that their getting chicken pox protects adults against shingles. Ironic that you are actually letting your child suffer from a virus to protect the older population

Yes this really annoys me too mrs Pumble. I think there is evidence that it isn't true anyway and adults can just get the shingles vaccine if the don’t want to get it. Children should not suffer just to protect others.

Just like children should not be given a vaccine for something that barely affects them to protect others. They are not guinea pigs.

I thought I had answered it, sorry. Teachers and TAs can have the vaccine themselves to protect them if this is likely to be an issue. Just as to go back to an earlier example I had a vaccine myself last week, I work with children, I don’t expect them to have the vaccine for me so that I do not have to.