To ask whether you would have and give your DC the COVID-19 vaccine when it becomes available?

[Juniorpromdressqueen]

Apologies if this has been asked before.

I’m very pro-vax, but the thought of such a new vaccine makes me feel a bit nervous. Then again, so does the thought of coronavirus.

I was reading an article in The Atlantic about the vaccine today, and it said 21% of Americans say they won’t have the vaccine and another 30% are undecided, and it made me think about it, because my initial reaction was, “idiots!!” and then I realised that made me hypocritical, as I am nervous myself.

What would you do, if you and your family could have the vaccine at Boots tomorrow?

But it still does change the core values behind medicine somewhat, doesn’t it?

NHS worker (working in COVID hub today, quiet thankfully). Already volunteered in a vaccine trial and have had a jab which may or may not have been the COVID vaccine.

I’m low risk but getting vaccinated protects you/your family members who are high risk or who can’t have vaccines due to medical conditions/allergies. No brainer. My children will be having it when it’s available.

People are vaccinated for the benefit of their vulnerable contacts all the time. Why do you think the NHS rolls out flu jabs for their perfectly healthy staff each year?
In this case you’d be vaccinating young people to enable their generation to take part in society and receive a full education. Not a problem. In theory parents would be free to pass up that deal and home educate but I suspect that would be politically unsellable so we’ll see what happens in the end.

Johnson has already been on record this last week as saying that he thinks anti-vaxxers are "nuts"

I rarely agree with Boris but he's correct in saying their tenets are usually ridiculous and potentially very damaging - and could prolong the current crisis without a rational, evidence based cause.

@OnlyFoolsnMothers

People die of chicken pox- the vaccination isnt standard amongst children.

Exactly. At least we know more about chicken pox.

Good luck to those that want to have the vaccine. There’s risks though you don’t know what could go wrong as it’s a “trial” id rather not to be honest. I say that whilst working on a COVID-19 ward and I’d still rather take my chances..... for those that feel comfortable to have it they shouldn’t be inflicting their choices on others who feel differently

I did read a fascinating piece about vaccines on speeded up timetables - they talked to those who'd developed one for the original SARS. In the final outcome, where 100s of thousands, maybe more, were injected with it, I think around 1800 people developed a chronic illness from it (not narcolepsy, but something like it I think?) and the researchers said sometimes with things like this you will not be able to test on enough people to be able to spot these things, but given the impact of COVID-19 the fact is it is worth it if a small proportion of subjects develop problems because the human and economic cost of it continuing is so high.

Well i dont deem my dd collateral damage. Her possibly having life long issues from 10yrs old is not ok in my book.

We lucky being rural, no local or state cases so its a choice i can comfortably make as where we are its highly unlikely we will come into contact with corona at all.
I was even able to attend a footy game with 20,000 others, mask free on Saturday as our state doing so well

Yes, absolutely.

I'm a 43yo white female; stats shows that should I contract the virus, it could be unpleasant but not deadly/life-changing. However, this isnt really about me. It's about protecting the lives of the people who this disease is destroying. It's a no brainer.

It’s not a no brainer at all.

Do you routinely vaccinate yourself against every disease going in case you pass it on?

Do you routinely vaccinate yourself against every disease going in case you pass it on?

Children don't just pass it on though. Sometimes they get very ill themselves and there could be long term effects from even mild illness. We just don't know. Weird to be worried about whether the vaccine could have a side effect but not worry about adverse effects from the virus itself.

Not really, because although there is still an element of we-don’t-know about it, the real impact is on the elderly and the already unwell (which doesn’t make the losses any less tragic, of course, but certainly for younger children there have been no deaths and I believe few cases.

I think lockdown was the right thing to do. I’m not one of these people happy to sacrifice Aunty Ethel so children can play with their friends.

But vaccines are not risk free - hence people saying ‘it’s a no brainer’ isn’t quite true. I had a vaccine last week. I knew there was a tiny risk but I took it because it benefited me, more importantly my baby, and so all is well.

It would be wholly unreasonable of me to insist young children took that vaccine instead of me, to protect me. The people having vaccines should be the people who need the protection.

@blackbirdcottage

Not really, because although there is still an element of we-don’t-know about it, the real impact is on the elderly and the already unwell (which doesn’t make the losses any less tragic, of course, but certainly for younger children there have been no deaths and I believe few cases.

I think lockdown was the right thing to do. I’m not one of these people happy to sacrifice Aunty Ethel so children can play with their friends.

But vaccines are not risk free - hence people saying ‘it’s a no brainer’ isn’t quite true. I had a vaccine last week. I knew there was a tiny risk but I took it because it benefited me, more importantly my baby, and so all is well.

It would be wholly unreasonable of me to insist young children took that vaccine instead of me, to protect me. The people having vaccines should be the people who need the protection.

But on the last paragraph, how do we protect people who for medical reasons cannot be vaccinated or for whom a vaccine would not be effective?

Not by insisting everyone else takes a risk for them, that’s for sure.

This is really interesting reading, thanks everyone.

For me personally, the people arguing why the vaccine is safe and they will have it are more persuasive because the posts are based on an understanding of the science behind the immunology and what is known about the type of virus rather than just a gut feeling it might be rushed or unsafe, which is how I felt when asking it.

The “we do not know it doesn’t affect children” brigade really need to learn to read statistics....the numbers are so low for the majority of people under 40 and pretty much non existent for children.

I’ve got no issue with making vaccines compulsory but it does piss me off when this wasn’t the case for mmr etc- diseases that mostly kill young children but now we have something that may affect adults let’s pull out the big guns

MMR is another one where it’s about herd immunity though.

Rubella used to be routinely given to girls in their teens, more or less ensuring protection throughout their child bearing years when it is needed. It’s arse about face to give it to a baby who doesn’t need it and risk it wearing off when if she is a girl she’s in her 30s and pregnant and does need it.

"There’s risks though you don’t know what could go wrong as it’s a “trial” id rather not to be honest."

It's not a trial though, is it? They do trials to determine it is safe.

"they shouldn’t be inflicting their choices on others who feel differently"

In the case of vaccines, it's not that simple. You not getting the vaccine directly impacts those around you.

Only if they don’t have it.

@blackbirdcottage

Not by insisting everyone else takes a risk for them, that’s for sure.

But instead forcing the most vulnerable members of society to take the risk instead? I'm not arguing for compulsory vaccination for coronavirus by the way, just curious as to how we balance any moral obligation to protect others.

Yes, if there’s a vaccine developed to the point of distribution I’d hope to have it and would seek it for my family also. I’m required to have multiple vaccines for work and would expect this to be added.

I’m surprised so many people are reading not just the original clinical trials but also the follow-up trials for every medication they’re prescribed, and are also so familiar with the stages of clinical testing.

I'm extremly pro-vaccination, am still adhering to a mostly locked down life, have been wearing a mask for ages, etc etc.

But I would be very wary - my OH worked in the pharmaceutical industry in regulation (at one of the places working on developing vaccines) and he has said he's on the fence. He knows how much work goes into making vaccines, how much data there is on various existing formulations that they can look at when making new vaccines etc, so he's not just saying 'no, it's dangerous'. But he's also more aware than most of the issues that can arise with vaccines during clinical trials and beyond, so we're not 100% sure either way.

We'll happily continue working from home, keeping socialising to an absolute minimum and wearing masks when we do go out to limit our exposure/risk exposing anyone else for as long as necessary, though. So hopefully if we didn't get it, we wouldn't be contributing too heavily to putting people at risk.

Rubella used to be routinely given to girls in their teens, more or less ensuring protection throughout their child bearing years when it is needed. It’s arse about face to give it to a baby who doesn’t need it and risk it wearing off when if she is a girl she’s in her 30s and pregnant and does need it.

As someone who cannot assimilate the rubella vaccine and shows no immunity to it, I'm glad babies are vaccinated against it. This includes my own so that while I was pregnant with my subsequent babies I wasnt at risk of catching it.

The MMR is combined because the three components combine well and it means fewer vaccinations need to be given with no need for the booster at age 11/12.

Herd immunity isn't only about protecting the vulnerable who are unable to be vaccinated or whose immunity may be compromised. It helps to vastly reduce the circulation of whichever disease being vaccinated against which then reduces the chances of it mutating.

Not really, because although there is still an element of we-don’t-know about it, the real impact is on the elderly and the already unwell (which doesn’t make the losses any less tragic, of course, but certainly for younger children there have been no deaths and I believe few cases.

The immediate impact in terms of death may be mainly on the elderly and those with underlying conditions. However some healthy children do get very unwell which will certainly have an impact on. And if you're worried about rare long-term side-effects why are you worried that this virus could have long-term side-effects even in those who initially get mild disease. The Epstein-Barr virus for example may only cause mild or no symptoms in many children but it's been implicated in loads of autoimmune disease and cancers even in people who are asymptomatic at the time. That's true of many other viruses too.

why are you worried why are you not worried

The “we do not know it doesn’t affect children” brigade really need to learn to read statistics....the numbers are so low for the majority of people under 40 and pretty much non existent for children.

The statistics only relate to immediate deaths. We know nothing about long term adverse effects because the virus hasn't been around for long.