AIBU to feel confused and old about transgender issues.

[confusedandold]

I was born in 1976 so 43 years old. During school, I don't recall any children in my school having issues with their gender. There may have been some but none that I was away of. I had no experience of transgender people apart from a vague memory of seeing a man in women clothing walking up the road and being fascinated by it.

Transgender issues have never been at the forefront of my mind. I feel that I'm very accepting of other people's life choices and that people have a right to be happy in their lives whatever that means for them.

Lately, I feel completely confused by transgender issues. It has never been something that I'd given much thought to but I get completely an utterly confused by the terminology. Non-binary, cisgender etc this is all wording that I had never encountered before. Everyone seems to be talking about trans right and gender issues and I don't understand where this has suddenly come from. Is it that more people have issues around their gender? Is it fashionable to be gender-neutral? Is it just that people now feel more comfortable in expressing how they feel inside? Is there greater acceptance? I'm returning to the UK after 10 years abroad and this is a topic that was never really discussed when I left.

I guess I'm asking because I don't want to inadvertently offend anyone by using incorrect terminology. As shocking as this may sound but when I was at school mixed-race people were referred to as 'half-caste', even mixed-race people in my school referred to themselves in this way, now this is a huge no-no. Times change, language changes and it is so easy to offend while having no intention whatsoever of doing so.

So why do we have single sex spaces and organisations and separate sports and reserved places on boards?

What is it about being female that has led to this?

If you are going to allow anyone who self ids as a woman into those spaces (without the current gatekeeping), what has happened to your original reasoning?

How does allowing a trans person access to a space they feel safest/most comfortable in stop that exactly?

I'll se if you can answer this.

How does allowing any male who claims to be a woman into female only areas make women and transwomen any safer?

A white person might want to identify as a black person but as things stand, that isn’t enshrined in law.

Can I identify as a transwoman? I want my feelings and safety to matter too.

@CatsArePeopleToo

Can I identify as a transwoman? I want my feelings and safety to matter too.

only if you are male.

So is my Dad (a normal person) but he can still fuck off to the male spaces provided for him and stay the hell away from mine!

Your dad presumably identifies as male so, yes he'd use the space he's most comfortable in. As do you. Why does a trans person doing the same cause you such problems?

Are you insinuating all trans people are perverts? Or are you just uncomfortable around people who don't fit your norms?

If it's the former then you're completely wrong and if the latter that's your issue and a whole group of society shouldn't be punished because of your intolerance.

Because it’s a bloke in a women’s changing room

Except it's not, but discussing this issue with someone with your views on the matter is akin to talking about evolution with a creationist.

@CatsArePeopleToo

Can I identify as a transwoman? I want my feelings and safety to matter too.

If you don't have a gender identity or conform to feminine stereotypes then you already are trans according to stonewall.

Which is basically the crux of the issue, a trans identity has no objective reality and purely depends on a nebulous internal feeling.

only if you are male.

What if they identify as a male who identifies as a woman?

Except it is bucc, because identifying as something does not cause you to become that thing, no matter how strongly you might want it to.

Your dad presumably identifies as male so, yes he'd use the space he's most comfortable in. As do you. Why does a trans person doing the same cause you such problems?

Should the space also be comfortable for the other users of that space? Or is it only the trans person who matters? Are women entitled to have a space where they feel comfortable and safe and with no males present? Or should they give this up if a transwoman would feel more comfortable using a women-only space?

Except it's not, but discussing this issue with someone with your views on the matter is akin to talking about evolution with a creationist.

Funny you should mention this. Do you believe that people can change sex?

Your dad presumably identifies as male so, yes he'd use the space he's most comfortable in. As do you. Why does a trans person doing the same cause you such problems?
How does all the "identify as" stuff work with Philip Bunce who wears a suit to work most days of the week
and a dress on others
and stopped a real woman getting an award

How does allowing any male who claims to be a woman into female only areas make women and transwomen any safer?

Still no answer... 🤷‍♀️

@LakieLady - I’m not so sure, I think it’s entirely the circles you move in, I’ve worked in London and now live and work in one of the Uks largest cities. I’ve worked for small firms and some of the biggest in the world. It’s just never been a thing.

But I can see if you work in a place (Brighton probably being a prime example) you might think something prevalent in that area is more common than it is.

I grew up in the country,everyone had a pony and a dog - it was therefore reasonable to assume horse ownership was very common and most people spent their lives in wellies.

Now you see why moaning about the tiny chance of being assaulted by a trans person in a toilet is ridiculous? And definitely not worth making many many people hate themselves more than they already do?

And there you have it

Ladies STOP moaning about being sexually assaulted. Someone far more important than you feels SAD INSIDE.

*How does allowing any male who claims to be a woman into female only areas make women and transwomen any safer?

Still no answer... 🤷‍♀️*

Once you answer mine I'll answer yours.

If one is allowed to use whichever space one 'feels most comfortable in' then every female-attracted sex offender is going to be using the women's toilets and the women's open plan changing room at swimming.

Meanwhile, women like my late mother with IBS, who couldn't use public women's toilets if there was a male cleaner in the room, even with me there, will have nowhere to go to the toilet in comfort.

@Buccanarab

That, bucc, is absolute nonsense. Blacks and whites were segregated due to an incorrect belief that white people were superior. Women are not given different changing areas because of their superiority over men, but because we are entitled (or should be) to some degree of privacy.

How does allowing a trans person access to a space they feel safest/most comfortable in stop that exactly?

Are you asking how allowing males into women-only spaces stops women having privacy?

Once you've clarified what you mean I'll try and answer your question.

@Buccanarab

*How does allowing any male who claims to be a woman into female only areas make women and transwomen any safer?

Still no answer... 🤷‍♀️*

Once you answer mine I'll answer yours.

As I said its a completely illogical and contradictory argument.

Allowing self declared male bodied women into female only spaces just opens up female only spaces for the abusive men to enter freely thus rendering it no longer safe for the other msle bodied women and women using them.

Now, your turn

Buccan
Do you think Mosques / Convents / Synagogues should allow TransWomen into women only areas because they feel comfortable there ?

women are more likely to be attacked in mixed sex toilets and changing areas - yeah because women are the most likely to be attacked anywhere; not just toilets

Seems basic data analysis is not your strong point.

Anyone spot the irony?

In the end, the backlash against this movement will be hugely damaging for gay people. And women. We're being thrown under the bus. This isn't a progressive movement. Mark my words - in 15 years time there'll be fascist governments across Europe, and gay rights will be zero again. Major own goal on the part of Stonewall and the like.

I’m fairly sure my kids primary school separated toilets for different age groups. Not unfairly discriminating against the children nor implying that older children were all predatory. But reflecting the overriding principal of safeguarding and the different needs of the different groups.
My daughter started periods in primary. Pips Bunce doesn’t need to dispose of sanitary towels any more on his Piippa days than his Phillip days, and can use an urinal on all days.,,

It's widely available per sex, we have to report in the 5 prisons I work across in both biological sex and gender

The vast majority of offenders are male. Trans women do not count as 'male' (rightfully so) under the majority of the crime reports done in the UK.

So you presumably list transwomen as male in prison, but they're listed as female in most of their crime reports? Chinny reckon. It's surely not possible for an adolescent with zero grasp of logic or statistics to lie about their job for the purposes of furthering an agenda, is it?

What do males who identify as females have in common with females that they don't have in common with males?

It must be a compelling argument if it seeks to erase the rights and protections of 51 per cent of the population.

I'd like to see more acceptance and tolerance from males towards other males who may self identify as female and females who identify as male.

But it's always women who are asked to budge over isn't it?