To think this was school admission fraud ?

[Survivor12345]

We put our house on the market in 2015, knowing that a key selling point was its proximity (walking distance) to the most sought-after primary school in our area, and the fact that the secondary school in our town was the #1 choice for our part of the county (Hertfordshire).

Within 48 hours we had four full asking price offers, all from families with school-age children, as expected.

To avoid a chain, we chose the buyers who claimed to be 'living in rented accommodation' in another town whose two children, then aged approx. 7 and 5, attended the primary school near us.

We did wonder how come they had got in there, but didn't question it too much, concluding that it was not our business. They gushed over our house and claimed that they would be moving straight in when we moved out, were delighted to be sure of the secondary school places etc. etc.

They turned out to have lied about being 'in rented accommodation'; in fact, they owned the house they lived in in the other town, but 'Didn't like the schools there, they are too rough'.

Whatever, after discovering that they'd lied we were halfway through the sales process so had little choice but to continue with them, even though they ducked and dived trying to claim nonsense after their survey etc. We gave them one week to complete after their extortion attempts which they complied with, as they clearly didn't want to lose the house.

So we moved out on completion - and they have never moved into the place !

OK I UNDERSTAND THAT THIS IS NONE OF OUR BUSINESS, NEVERTHELESS, LYING IS LYING IS FRAUD AS I UNDERSTAND IT WHEN IT COMES TO SCHOOL PLACES ?

Since buying our former house, they have continued to live in their house in the other town and send their children to the town's two highly over-subscribed schools, thus, in our view, depriving two children from our town of two places at good schools near their genuine homes.

They have rented our former house out and continue to own it.

What I would like to know is, does this amount to school place application fraud?

We knew they were buying our house for its proximity to these good schools, but believed them when they said that they were going to move into it and live there.

We don't care what they do, but do believe that it's wrong to game the system like this. Our children are grown, and we're not familiar with the requirements for school applications.

AIBU to ask anyone else who has recent knowledge to tell me whether what they have done is just sharp practice, or is it downright unlawful, in which case, how do I report them?

@LadyofTheManners, I always find it strange and somewhat hypocritical that people willing to do this because they care so much for their child's education, don't see anything wrong in lying, defrauding and being devious to get to that goal! It's almost an oxymoron.

My niece got into a VERY sought after school out of catchment. The school was named on her EHCP. Her brother then got in on sibling priority.

They clearly lied to get them into the primary school

That is an assumption. You have no idea how their children were allocated a place.

OP's whole soapbox temper tantrum is based on
1.the assumption that they lied to go to the primary, before they even bought the house
2.the assumption that they lied or even needed her house for the eldest to go to secondary.

She has no idea why the children got the places they got or what address was used for application.

She has no proof whatsoever for this so called fraud . Just a house that's being rented out .

I would report admissions fraud if I was fairly confident that’s what it was. I don’t condone the behaviour you accuse them of. I am aware though that there’s perhaps things you are unaware of - special needs, adoption etc that might mean everything is above board.

But I cannot imagine being that insanely interested in what the buyers of my house were doing five years later that I had an interest in knowing where they live or where their children go to school. Unless you have another connection to them it’s verging on creepy stalkering - you sure you definitely haven’t broken GDPR data protection law in your role as self appointed morality monitor? Seriously, we sold our house a while ago, I have no idea whether the buyers moved in or let it out, nor do I care. Move on....

I wonder if she's actually pissed that they rent it out rather than living in it and she feels duped they gave her a load of bollocks with "for the schools,moving in straight away etc".

Since she can't do anything about that , she's clinging to the school fraud option because "they must've lied".

We don't care what they do, but do believe that it's wrong to game the system like this
Clearly you do care about what they do or you wouldn't be in a froth on Mn about it🤷‍♀️

Reporting after 5 years, haha what on earth. Why are you even still thinking about it? . I dislike this kind of thing too, but if they were already in the primary school then buying the house has no bearing on that, perhaps for secondary they are planning to move in for the minimal amount of time. Maybe you need a hobby?

No, our buyers wanted to see the council tax bill to see what category it was rated as

You can look this stuff up online - googling it is simple. The definitely were up to something

I would let the school know tbh.

@Triangularbubble

I would report admissions fraud if I was fairly confident that’s what it was. I don’t condone the behaviour you accuse them of. I am aware though that there’s perhaps things you are unaware of - special needs, adoption etc that might mean everything is above board.

But I cannot imagine being that insanely interested in what the buyers of my house were doing five years later that I had an interest in knowing where they live or where their children go to school. Unless you have another connection to them it’s verging on creepy stalkering - you sure you definitely haven’t broken GDPR data protection law in your role as self appointed morality monitor? Seriously, we sold our house a while ago, I have no idea whether the buyers moved in or let it out, nor do I care. Move on....

I second triangle here. There is zero evidence of fraud. It’s 5yrs later, you should not even know which school the buyers children are attending! Much less be frothing about how they got their school place.

What benefit will it generate if you report them? They did not commit a crime and there may have been a change in circumstances. School places are allocated on a series of criteria and not just the address. Your post comes across as being vindictive without knowing or sharing the facts.
You entered into a financial transaction to sell your house, without any contractual obligation as to where they send their children to school.

I have chaired hundreds of appeals and potential fraud is a fact of life when it comes to school admissions to sort after schools but the reality is that for every situation where somebody thinks there has been fraud the reality is that it is not.
The only people who can legitimately investigate whether an application is fraudulent is the LA or admission authority involved, so most of the comments here are based on assumptions which in some cases are incorrect. The address to be used for school admission purposes is the address where the child spends most nights of the school week.
Bottom line is that this house was sold 5 years ago. If the person who bought the house does not live there, then they cannot use the address for school admission purposes without it being fraud. However I wonder whether this family is using people's desire to be in catchment for an outstanding school to get renters to pay over the odds for the privilege of renting the house and therefore make more money for themselves.

Get a life

Perhaps they're waiting until September and will move house and kids then? Perhaps they could afford to buy your home, but want to sell the current one first?

I too have chaired many appeals.

As has been said, it would be fraud to obtain a school place on the basis of an address where the child has never lived or does not live on most school nights. But the house buyers had already found some means - quite possibly legitimate, such as being named on an EHCP - of getting places at the primary school. Many LEAs are alert now to short term rentals of convenience, to get children into oversubscribed schools. As Admission says, that might be happening here and if these are rentals of convenience, with the families maintaining an actual home somewhere else, the LEA may pick up on it and treat it as fraud.

I work in school admissions (I should do an AMA at some point)

What I would like to know is, does this amount to school place application fraud?

Yes, it is probably "fraud".

But all you can do is to let the school (if it's an Academy, Foundation or VA school) or the LA (if it's a community or VC school) know of your concerns, and they will decide what, if anything they will do.

@riceuten even if the children were already at the school before the house was even bought?

@Bluntness100

Op, I don’t understand, on another thread you say you’re slt in a school, how come you need to ask on here if it’s fraud?

Lots of teachers, including head teachers, don't know much about admissions

I get you OP, pisses me off when people don’t think the rules apply to them. Report and if they haven’t done anything wrong they won’t need to worry about it.

Wow so out of spite you’re going to risk school places of children who’ve been settled at their school for 5 years.

I wonder if the admissions will deem you guilty of helping them secure the place since you sat on that info for five years. You should have done something at the time if you thought it was so shocking but you didn’t want to jeopardise your house sale. Now you’ve got your knickers in a twist and are lashing out on people who forgot you exist.

Do you generally see yourself as a victim in life and are on the lookout for those who get on with their lives.

@ComeOnBabyPopMyBubble the potential fraud relates to the secondary school applications

If OP is seriously considering reporting 5 years later and with no knowledge of personal circumstances then they should take into account that if DCs currently live in the house then the report would affect them not the people who own the house but live elsewhere.
But tbh this is all silly. If OP is genuinely obsessing about strangers, 5 years later then they should make an appointment with their GP. This isn't healthy behaviour.

Even if it was fraud (which isn't actually known), the only people who will suffer from this in the long term are the children, who are blameless. They are the ones who have been settled in their school for years, why would you risk their wellbeing and education because of something that MIGHT have happened 5 years ago?

Even if two local children did miss out back then, they are most likely settled in the school they ended up going to.

@myrtleWilson OP has no idea what address they used for the secondary school.

and the fact that the secondary school in our town was the #1 choice for our part of the county

Doesn't sound like the secondary has a very limited catchment area anyways.

The OP also has no idea if the reason why they got a place at the primary is also the reason the oldest got a place at the secondary .

By the sounds of it she wants to report both children as well not just the one at secondary.

She's just assuming they lied because reasons.

@GeorginaTheGiant

Oh and when the time comes we plan on moving specifically to get kids into the right secondary school. We will live in the house, but I don’t really see much difference between buying a house and living in it and buying a house and choosing to remain living elsewhere. You still own within the catchment which gives you a place at the school and it’s no skin off anyone else’s nose if you drive a bit further to get to school!

If you did this, i.e. Buy or rent a house and not live in it, this is classed as fraud and the children may lose their school place.