To think this was school admission fraud ?

[Survivor12345]

We put our house on the market in 2015, knowing that a key selling point was its proximity (walking distance) to the most sought-after primary school in our area, and the fact that the secondary school in our town was the #1 choice for our part of the county (Hertfordshire).

Within 48 hours we had four full asking price offers, all from families with school-age children, as expected.

To avoid a chain, we chose the buyers who claimed to be 'living in rented accommodation' in another town whose two children, then aged approx. 7 and 5, attended the primary school near us.

We did wonder how come they had got in there, but didn't question it too much, concluding that it was not our business. They gushed over our house and claimed that they would be moving straight in when we moved out, were delighted to be sure of the secondary school places etc. etc.

They turned out to have lied about being 'in rented accommodation'; in fact, they owned the house they lived in in the other town, but 'Didn't like the schools there, they are too rough'.

Whatever, after discovering that they'd lied we were halfway through the sales process so had little choice but to continue with them, even though they ducked and dived trying to claim nonsense after their survey etc. We gave them one week to complete after their extortion attempts which they complied with, as they clearly didn't want to lose the house.

So we moved out on completion - and they have never moved into the place !

OK I UNDERSTAND THAT THIS IS NONE OF OUR BUSINESS, NEVERTHELESS, LYING IS LYING IS FRAUD AS I UNDERSTAND IT WHEN IT COMES TO SCHOOL PLACES ?

Since buying our former house, they have continued to live in their house in the other town and send their children to the town's two highly over-subscribed schools, thus, in our view, depriving two children from our town of two places at good schools near their genuine homes.

They have rented our former house out and continue to own it.

What I would like to know is, does this amount to school place application fraud?

We knew they were buying our house for its proximity to these good schools, but believed them when they said that they were going to move into it and live there.

We don't care what they do, but do believe that it's wrong to game the system like this. Our children are grown, and we're not familiar with the requirements for school applications.

AIBU to ask anyone else who has recent knowledge to tell me whether what they have done is just sharp practice, or is it downright unlawful, in which case, how do I report them?

Oh ffs. They own the property. Leave them alone.

@Survivor12345

I agree that we need to get a life User50000999788887876655 , however fraud is fraud and two deserving children who live in that town are now going to lose places at the school there to two whose parents have lied.

We are not OK with that, even if you are.

I just can't see how it's fraud if their children were already at the school near your former home. Why do you think it is?

Maybe they are going to do work on the house before they move in?

@ComeOnBabyPopMyBubble I did use the word potential in my reply. Plus the OP says the purchasers made specific reference to being pleased that the purchase of the house 'made sure of secondary school places' - so I presume the behaviour of the purchasers led her to believe they were driven in part by admission criteria - whether she is right or not I guess only the admissions authority will know.

My kids went to a school outside of catchment, we were just lucky that one had mild SEN so was given the place and the siblings were fed in automatically.

Our secondary has feeder schools for priority, regardless of address.

Quite possible it’s totally above board and legal.

But go ahead, look strange. Gives the rest of us something to be amused by.

But why have you waited 5 years to consider reporting?

You have no idea whether they lied to get into either the primary or secondary school. For all you know, one or both children may have priority anyway by virtue of an EHCP. Admission authorities do check very thoroughly, and simply producing evidence that they own your old house is unlikely to be enough. They may well be required to produce other evidence, e.g. where Child Benefit is paid, what doctor's surgery the children are registered at, etc. Bear in mind that if they were conducting a fraud it's nearly inevitable that it would come out when the children were at primary school: young children really can't be trusted not to let slip where they live, and of course if they have friends round then the information will soon become common knowledge.

So, all in all, I think in your shoes I would work on the basis that the strong likelihood is that the school admission authorities did investigate and you don't need to report anything.

Instead of making your own moral judgement as to who should buy the house, why didn't you just sell to the buyer who made the highest offer.

Then you wouldn't feel morally offended.

What you did is actually a form of discrimination, think about it, you decided who should have the house based on them having kids, what about if someone older or without kids had a perfectly hy reason to live their. In fact you don't actually have to have a reason for living in specific areas.

Am I right in thinking you don't even know if the older child is going to the local secondary school? At least check on that, as you will look really ridiculous if it turns out that they never bothered to apply.

Op doesn't want poor kids at her school

Big issue 5 Years Ago.

The clue was them stating they would be moving in as soon as you moved out. That should be a given unless it is a BTL and obvious from the start.

You don't actually know why the children got into the school, so it's a bit over the top to be shouting fraud over and over again, particularly when it has absolutely nothing to do with you.

This thread is disturbing as hell and very reminiscent of 1930s Germany. So the facts we have are:

Op sold a house to a family 5 years ago and had a bee in her bonnet then about the "right" sort of people moving in.

And... Thats it. Thats literally everything. Its been 5 years and she does not know these people. She does not know whether they plan to move into the house at some point. She does not know what address they use on their kids application form. She knows precisely fuck all about these people but is adamant they are fraudsters and they are depriving little rich well to do children of their rightful education

Again, its been 5 years and you know fuck all about them. Get a life and maybe see a gp because you sound paranoid and none of this is normal behaviour.

Also for people saying report it and if innocent no harm done, actually you can cause a great deal of stress to people when you have zero evidence of any wrong doing.

It’s none of your business.

RyanBergarasTeeth
I agree with you.
A ridiculous thread.

@RyanBergarasTeeth

This thread is disturbing as hell and very reminiscent of 1930s Germany. So the facts we have are:

Op sold a house to a family 5 years ago and had a bee in her bonnet then about the "right" sort of people moving in.

And... Thats it. Thats literally everything. Its been 5 years and she does not know these people. She does not know whether they plan to move into the house at some point. She does not know what address they use on their kids application form. She knows precisely fuck all about these people but is adamant they are fraudsters and they are depriving little rich well to do children of their rightful education

Again, its been 5 years and you know fuck all about them. Get a life and maybe see a gp because you sound paranoid and none of this is normal behaviour.

@RyanBergarasTeeth This.

I don't understand how it's fraud if they were already in the school so how is it depriving someone of a place . How did they get into the school if it was oversubscribed?
Also 5 years ago why have you just sat and thought about it now ?
I know lockdown has made people think about things but the moment has past .
How do you know that they haven't bought another house in the catchment area and live there .
You Seam to know a lot about someone who bought a house from you . In all honesty I don't know what happened to my house after I moved and I don't care .

Thanks to all for your responses.

Clearly there are many people who think it's OK for others to 'game' the system and clamber over others purely in their own interests.

The buyers of our home lied to us about being in rented accommodation, they were not. They claimed they were going to move into our house, and never did so. It was rented out within a month of our moving out.

They live in a relatively 'poor' town with much lower educational attainment than the schools near our former home, and choose to bring their kids to the school/s near our house while also renting the house out at a high rent, as PP said, probably because of its proximity to excellent schools.

I personally don't think it's OK to lie, cheat and game the system, but lots of other people clearly do.

Having brought my children up in that lovely town and sent them to the excellent schools there, I'm very glad all this is behind me because the situation has become ridiculous since our children went to school.

My sympathies are with the PP on this thread whose children have lost out to fraudulent practice such as our house buyers have used, and probably still are using, and I have reported them to Herts CC School Admissions.

I'm sure if what they have done is above board they will have no problems, otherwise I believe that they should be held accountable if they applied for school places based on an address at which they had never lived.

I didn't realise until I started this thread that this practice has become commonplace and people think it's morally acceptable to cheat and lie, but you live and learn.

Why wait 5 years did you just find out this information recently?

I don't think people think it's acceptable OP, but it was 5 years ago. I think some people are finding it hard to fathom that youre still thinking about it, or would consider reporting it so soon after the fact.

So long*

Op honestly seek mental help.

Its not your home anymore. How do you know where these strangers live? Are you stalking them?

Why do you hate poor people and think you are above anyone else?

Either you are the most vicious snob on the planet or you are goading for a laugh.

I personally don't think it's OK to lie, cheat and game the system, but lots of other people clearly do

They only lied to you.
You're not the school or the Admission Board.

What actually brought this on... 5 years later?