The NHS has collapsed.

[brahmahda]

It's great that no Covid wards have been overwhelmed for lack of ventilators - Clap Clap. But ...

1. My regular preventative treatment for a chronic condition has stopped, with no sign of it restarting.
2. My 13yo son needs diagnostic tests for symptoms he's had for several months, but the diagnostic clinic is closed, again with no sign of it restarting.
3. A vital service that the GP would normally provide has been redirected to a "hub" with a convoluted appointment booking process and a very long waiting list.
4. My elderly, isolated/ing mum who urgently needs a face-to-face with her GP due to a sudden decline in her health has been messed around with a complicated process that changes depends on who she speaks to (she was phoned and told she'd need to get a Covid test 10 mins before setting off for the appointment, so had to cancel it).

Of course issues of delayed cancer treatments etc have been widely reported in the news, but it's clear that they are just the tip of the iceberg. The problems must be impacting almost every family in the country to some extent, and there's no sign of them being temporary. I just can't see the NHS getting back onto it's already-shaky track in the foreseeable future.

Anyone else find this terrifying?

Although I agree with you that some services have been put back many months, I must say my families personal experience has been fantastic. DS is going through ASD assessments and his appointments are coming through thick and fast, not as much waiting as I expected. Youngest DS was unwell last week and he was seen within an hour of me calling.

@JanetWeb2812

Our GP is having it easy. The surgery is closed for routine appointments and everything is triaged by phone. He and his staff cut about in their scrubs but to all intents and purposes, Covid has provided them with a four month break and plenty of time for him to attend to his burgeoning property empire.

Yes, so easy facing the risk of Covid every day, spending hours in boiling hot PPE, trying to juggle the risks of bringing patients to the surgery against the risks of managing them by phone/video. And all with reduced income and 25-50% staff shielding, having to isolate, or not able to see patients due to risk factors.

And how very unreasonable to wear scrubs to make infection control easier. Ditto following NHS England's instructions to triage all calls by phone.

Dental care is a whole different story - but that is already privatised so no government bots complaining about that.

It's not different at all. In fact a NHS dental practice is incredibly similar in funding etc to a GP surgery. GPs and dentists are both usually self employed/private businesses providing NHS services and being paid by the NHS. One of the major problems with them both is that they've continued to be paid by NHS despite not actually providing many services. Ker-ching!

I'm in Wales and people were dying due to delays in treatment even before Covid.

I am in pain (gynae) and it is a month between each appt with the GP as they are so busy. Its' hopeless. They havent' even given me a diagnosis yet alone a treatment.

I am sorry Op that this your experience. I am I incredibly impressed by both GP and hospital. Both myself and partner have needed to go to both several times during lockdown. Very little waiting to speak to the gp, he called me and invited me straight into the surgery. Then blood tests and hospital appointment within the week.

I know its not life threatening but for dd it could be career threatening. She dislocated her shoulder in February and was supposed to have her first physio session in March. It was cancelled and we have heard nothing even though the clinic has re-opened. I assume they have a huge backlog.

And we are trying to get an urgent assessment for mil who has severe dementia as fil was recently hospitalised and is now not physically fit to care for her.

@Badbadbunny

Dental care is a whole different story - but that is already privatised so no government bots complaining about that.

It's not different at all. In fact a NHS dental practice is incredibly similar in funding etc to a GP surgery. GPs and dentists are both usually self employed/private businesses providing NHS services and being paid by the NHS. One of the major problems with them both is that they've continued to be paid by NHS despite not actually providing many services. Ker-ching!

The funding of GP practices and dentists is completely different. The latter is on a fee-for-service basis, whereas GPs are paid on a capitation basis.

GPs receive about £100 per year per patient to cover all costs except rent/mortgage. The average patient sees a GP or nurse 7.5 times per year, so GPs earn £13 gross per consultation, which does not cover costs. Practices rely on earning additional money from the NHS for services that are separately funded, like immunisations & smears, none of which they have been able to do during Covid. Meanwhile, patient demand, which did dip for a few weeks at the start of Covid, is back up to normal, but everything takes longer because of PPE and the need to speak to everyone by phone as well as (if required) face to face. So less money, less staff (many shielding or unable to see patients due to personal risk factors), the same work.

Meanwhile, dentists cannot run their businesses because the infection control requirements e.g. leaving the room for an hour after using a drill, make it impossible.

Neither GPs or NHS dentists are allowed to furlough staff.

Expect to see many practices of both types go under.

My concern on the back of the comments from those who have had very quick call backs/appts for the GP same day is why are they able to do that so quickly when at normal times the surgery appointments were sometimes hard to get. Is it that people are still under the misapprehension that they are saving the NHS/NHS is closed for business and still not contacting the gp for issues that will get worse over time.

The funding of GP practices and dentists is completely different. The latter is on a fee-for-service basis, whereas GPs are paid on a capitation basis.

The NHS has been continuing to pay NHS dental practices throughout the lockdown.

One this has been clear in this crisis as long as we had 4000 spare beds in Nightingale excel then the NHS was happy - its aim in a sense being to treat no one. There has been no NHS care for most of us and indeed in my area at one point you only got an ambulance when you were just about dead with blue lips - almost too late to save. So let us now rethink it - eg no NHS if you are over healthy weight and 10% flat tax only if you are healthy weight or right to opt out and in return your tax is 20% less (20% of the tax you pay goes on the NHS which we all now know for sure is never there for us in a crisis for many people or in ordinary times either).

I only used a doctor once in 15 years but I have had regular dental checks and those are not even available now at my practice at least for now so no NHS at all of the only kind I ever use and yet I pay masses of tax and get no furlough help. We are certainly not all in this together.

@BellaintheWychElm

My concern on the back of the comments from those who have had very quick call backs/appts for the GP same day is why are they able to do that so quickly when at normal times the surgery appointments were sometimes hard to get. Is it that people are still under the misapprehension that they are saving the NHS/NHS is closed for business and still not contacting the gp for issues that will get worse over time.

I think a degree of it is that the time wasters haven’t been bothering. People have realised they don’t need to run to the GP or A and E as much as they may have before.

@Badbadbunny

The funding of GP practices and dentists is completely different. The latter is on a fee-for-service basis, whereas GPs are paid on a capitation basis.

The NHS has been continuing to pay NHS dental practices throughout the lockdown.

I should bloody well hope so, considering that they aren't allowed to furlough staff and are prevented from earning any income!

I've only had to access healthcare once since the covid situation began and it was very positive.

I rang the GP with a breast issue I'd had for a little while, was given a same day appt which led to a fast track hospital appt a few days later. I was about 15 mins early for my appt but ended up being called straight away and was out and on my way home by the time the appt was originally due to start.

Bar the mask wearing and protective gear which takes some getting used to it was a much more efficient process than any I've experienced before covid.

I'm sure it varies hugely from area to area though so I'm sorry your experiences haven't been good OP. I wanted to add mine because I wouldn't want anyone to be put of getting essential checks because they think it will be difficult - it might not be.

We had a discussion about this on another thread. Is it certain areas of England that are struggling? because we're in Scotland and haven't experienced any of these issues.
In fact, during lockdown, one of our relatives was diagnosed with cancer and started treatment; an elderly relative has had three house visits and two hospital stays and three hospital appointments for chronic conditions. I've had telephone consultations and medication prescribed.
On the other thread, medical staff in England said their Trust hadn't stopped cancer appointments and another said they had re-prioritised some appointments but they felt everyone had still received appropriate and timely responses.
I'm very nervous that just as the government voted against protecting the NHS, stories are springing up saying it's not coping. I hope those anecdotes aren't taken as support for selling the NHS to the highest bidder the US It makes a complete mockery of clapping for the NHS when, at the first opportunity, people fail to protect it.

The "NHS" is not one organisation though. Some GP's do a great service, some don't, some hospital trust do a great job, some don't. It is, unfortunately a lottery.

^^ This.

Our local A&E and the hopsital wards were fantastic when we needed them at start of lockdown.

My parents GP so bad Dad's got left in pain with worsening infection and is now in hospital - though now there they're doing alot of tests as there's more going on than initial problem.

I think some areas will be facing massive backlogs now which will continue to cause problems for a long time.

My son had emergency surgery and excellent follow up care from the local walk in centre during June/July - our GP practice has no nurse but the walk in centre has been brilliant.

However I am in a way relieved that DH didn't have to deal with his cancer treatment and his final weeks this year, as they would have been far more traumatic for everyone.

Everything still provided here. Still face to face where appropriate though with waiting outside rather than in waiting room,.

We were looking at coils moving to centralised hub after departure of trained staff but continuing those now. Kiddie imms still going and proving to be helpful contact as have identified something that should have been picked up by health visitor but that has been paused (HV not delivered by GP surgery).

I had a hospital test -same day referral, in and out in 15 minutes.

I think this will strip some of the bureaucracy that previously existed, now they know things can be done in a simpler fashion.

I am hopeful for a more streamlined, efficient NHS in the future.

If only everyone who is not just smarter but in fact a better person in every way than their dr would just go to medical school.

Then we could all retire and tend to our burgeoning property empire.

In fact if the life is so golden and easy....I wonder why the PP who sees it that way hasn’t taken it on already? I’m absolutely certain it’s not the case that she’s simply too thick to go to medical school.

One thing I am really loving is so many more HCPs are now using emails to communicate which makes it much easier than playing telephone tennis trying to get through to people. Much more efficient use of everyone’s time

I know people are having difficulties but my own experiences of NHS during have been positive. I had a telephone consultation with my GP where my problem was sorted quickly and efficiently (making me wonder whether this could be done more often in normal times), my husbands longterm condition has continued to be managed throughout. The only small issue I have is that I've had 2 NHS dental checkups cancelled and currently the practice are not rescheduling these but experiencing no dental problems so not too worried at the moment.

I think it really depends on what area you are in. There already was a postcode lottery when it comes to healthcare.

Example, whenever I book a gp appointment, it's a wait of 3 weeks. Where I lived previously, it was 48-72 hours. We live in a heavily populated area which , according to my partner, who grew up here, is a known dumping ground for migrants.

Stupid, OTT, sensationalist topic name OP. Just adding to anxiety so many people already have.
That may well be YOUR very specific experience, but 1000s of us have received very good service from the NHS service even throughout lockdown.
My examples:

1. Having to take DS into A&E in the height of lockdown (for non Covd related health issue). Still receiving amazing treatment and care from 2 different hospitals.

2. Having had several virtual GP appointments through lockdown, booked and carried out same day for myself, DH and DS

3. Even receiving reminder letters from NHS reminding me I am overdue for a smear and telling me to book this in ASAP.

Do you really expect its much different in any other country right now? Of course things everywhere, in every sector has slowed/temporarily closed in some areas/will resume again gradually. Stop freaking out and tarnishing the NHS as a whole in this way.

Since my last post I have had a call from my physio to say that he is coming to my house next week.

My husband had an issue resolved, this included a 4 day hospital stay.
DD has had physio and two consultant appointments. Also had a GP appointment this morning.
Another relative has been diagnosed and had treatment started for cancer.
Another relative has had diagnostics and treatment for a heart condition.

There. I balanced the anecdata.

The NHS hasn't collapsed. Your trust is dealing with things in a different way.