The NHS has collapsed.

[brahmahda]

It's great that no Covid wards have been overwhelmed for lack of ventilators - Clap Clap. But ...

1. My regular preventative treatment for a chronic condition has stopped, with no sign of it restarting.
2. My 13yo son needs diagnostic tests for symptoms he's had for several months, but the diagnostic clinic is closed, again with no sign of it restarting.
3. A vital service that the GP would normally provide has been redirected to a "hub" with a convoluted appointment booking process and a very long waiting list.
4. My elderly, isolated/ing mum who urgently needs a face-to-face with her GP due to a sudden decline in her health has been messed around with a complicated process that changes depends on who she speaks to (she was phoned and told she'd need to get a Covid test 10 mins before setting off for the appointment, so had to cancel it).

Of course issues of delayed cancer treatments etc have been widely reported in the news, but it's clear that they are just the tip of the iceberg. The problems must be impacting almost every family in the country to some extent, and there's no sign of them being temporary. I just can't see the NHS getting back onto it's already-shaky track in the foreseeable future.

Anyone else find this terrifying?

@thegreylady

My friend was told, on 7/7 that he had pancreatic cancer. He has had scans but no treatment and he has no named specialist nurse and has had no phone or other talk with a consultant. Today, after 9 weeks he was told he may start chemotherapy in October. He will very possibly die and that will be ,in part, the fault of the system. GPs are inaccessible for the most part, routine procedures are cancelled or delayed. Covid symptoms are reported via 111 not via the GP. We don’t seem to have a fully functioning NHS anymore.

Unfortunately, pancreatic cancer has a very low survival rate. I know people who died from it and they didn't have chemotherapy anyway as it wouldn't have made any difference. I'm not sure that the lack of treatment for your friend has anything to do with Covid.

I'm towards the end of a high risk pregnancy. On the whole, the nhs has been amazing at a very difficult time. Our GP has also been far more responsive than usual.
I wonder if maybe you need to change GPS for your mum?

mrpumblechook do you mean that they think he will die anyway so why bother? Pancreatic cancer uk website has many people who survive for several years with treatment but 3 months average without...

@thegreylady

mrpumblechook do you mean that they think he will die anyway so why bother? Pancreatic cancer uk website has many people who survive for several years with treatment but 3 months average without...

No. I don't mean that they shouldn't bother with him. He should be getting medical treatment, e.g. for pain and anything else that makes him more comfortable. However , it is quite common that by the time people are diagnosed it is too late for chemotherapy to help . Obviously, I don't know whether that's the case in your friend's situation but it could be and it would explain the lack of chemotherapy. It's not necessarily anything to do with Covid.

do you mean that they think he will die anyway so why bother

It depends what stage it’s at. Very sad but pancreatic cancer has a very poor survival rate unless caught early (and usually caught late due to lack of symptoms at the early stage).
I‘m sure they’ll do their best to make your friend comfortable. But if his prognosis is poor they may choose to avoid aggressive treatment so he has a better quality of life. Unfortunately doctors have to prioritise in this way all the time. Someone with a better chance of survival is likely to be offered more intensive treatment. It’s not just about resources here, it’s about what the patient and doctors decide is best.

Agree, Covid seems to be the gift that keeps on giving when it comes to making excuses.

Complain, why you are not getting what was previously a standard service in the NHS, and the answer is always "yeah, but Covid".

We will probably end up with more people dying due to lack of treatment for cancer, heart disease etc. than for people who actually for of Covid.

@tttigress

Agree, Covid seems to be the gift that keeps on giving when it comes to making excuses.

Complain, why you are not getting what was previously a standard service in the NHS, and the answer is always "yeah, but Covid".

We will probably end up with more people dying due to lack of treatment for cancer, heart disease etc. than for people who actually for of Covid.

But what are hospitals supposed to do if they are filled with people with Covid? Apart from the fact that infected people use up capacity especially in ITU, it means hospitals are can be dangerous places for those with cancer, heart disease etc.

People with pancreatic cancer have very low survival rates. Ok fair enough I think we should all be grown up enough to cope with this, but what’s the 3-6 month outlook for the elderly/frail people that we’re ‘saving’ through lockdown?

@Refractory

People with pancreatic cancer have very low survival rates. Ok fair enough I think we should all be grown up enough to cope with this, but what’s the 3-6 month outlook for the elderly/frail people that we’re ‘saving’ through lockdown?

I'm not sure what that has to do with pancreatic cancer. Regardless not all the people we are "saving" the lockdown are elderly, as I'm sure you know.

Young people also die of Covid even a few with no medical conditions.

Lockdown was never about saving the elderly, it was about allowing the NHS capacity to continue treating cancer, road accidents and other emergencies. If you want it to be able to do so then comply with all the guidance and call out covidiots wherever you see them.

it was about allowing the NHS allowing the NHS capacity to continue treating cancer...

Sadly though to treat cancer the NHS needed to continue to diagnose cancer which hasn’t happened. They know that cancer diagnoses have plummeted. Also diagnoses for other life threatening illness.

I am on two prescriptions which normally require a face to face appointment to check BP. Since lockdown started,I have had both prescriptions filled twice on the back of a phone call to the health centre. Third time I was told that I needed a doctor call back as I’d had two prescriptions. Fair enough. Doctor calls back, asks how she can help. I said I wasn’t sure as what I need is a BP check. She asked a few questions, and I got another prescription (without the BP check) and told to invest in a home BP monitor.

The overwhelming impression I have is that everything has ground to a halt and no-one has a plan for restarting.

Cancers are still being treated - and diagnosed if people go for testing. False claims that it isnt happening just make people stay home more when they could be diagnosed and treated. Lies can kill.

Loved one had an MRI for suspected MS recently.

Next available appointment to discuss results is in ELEVEN MONTHS TIME.

Evan small supposedly simple things are not working right now.
I asked via out online platform.for a repeat prescription, as I have done many times before.
Got a reply saying they could not issue repeat prescriptions at this time, I need to do an e consult.
So I went back online, did that, and got a text saying they could not issue me with medication at this time and I need to apply via the repeat prescription online service!!

Cant phone anyone about it because the phone is only.for urgent appointments.

@alreadytaken

Cancers are still being treated - and diagnosed if people go for testing. False claims that it isnt happening just make people stay home more when they could be diagnosed and treated. Lies can kill.

That's not strictly true. You can't refer yourself for cancer testing and it's only possible to see a GP for specific symptoms that they feel need a physical examination. You will probably be seen for a breast lump, but not for something more vague. Loads of people end up being diagnosed with cancer when a lot of vague symptoms result in a blood test that alerts the GP to something being not quite right, but loads of GPs aren't doing those sorts of things at present.

It is worrying. However, my experience is things are starting to re-open. My DS has just got an OT appointment through and I'm able to see my care-co in person. I've also been given an appointment with psychology albeit over the phone.

what’s the 3-6 month outlook for the elderly/frail people that we’re ‘saving’ through lockdown?

I thought the "it's okay not to treat pancreatic cancer because they'd probably die anyway" comment was awful too, but please don't pit vulnerable people against each other.

Shielding was for anyone over 70. 70 is hardly ancient! The average fit and healthy 70 yr old is not going to drop dead in six months.

Many people on the shielding list are young or middle aged people with decades of life ahead of them. I know several people on the shielding list and they're all in their 20s or 30s, all work full-time jobs, and some have young children. Without Covid they could easily expect to live 40 or 50 years.

And that's people who were shielding, who actively chose to permit extreme restrictions (far more extreme than any of the rest of us) over their own lives. We didn't go into lockdown to save people who were shielding, but to save the countless millions of people who are considered vulnerable but not in the "extremely vulnerable" category.

MN is very wedded to this image of a hypothetical "frail 98-yr-old who sits in a rocking chair in her care home all day who's at death's door" and likes to pretend lockdown was to save her. It wasn't. The vast majority of those vulnerable to COVID are not 98yr olds who are at death's door anyway. And it's frankly eugenics to start dictating whose live is and is not worth saving.

I thought the "it's okay not to treat pancreatic cancer because they'd probably die anyway" comment was awful too, but please don't pit vulnerable people against each other.

If you are referring to my comment, that is certainly not what I meant. Two close relatives of mine died of pancreatic cancer and in both cases it was too late for chemotherapy to work and it would just have reduced their quality of life.

Shielding was for anyone over 70. 70 is hardly ancient! The average fit and healthy 70 yr old is not going to drop dead in six months.

No it wasn't for everyone over 70. Whilst older people are more vulnerable they are not automatically in the "very vulnerable" category and do not necessarily have to shield.

@Doyouknowwhat ring them back. The messages about urgent only are to keep you away. I'd say them sending you in an inactionable loop is pretty urgent and they need to sort it

It does look like things are restarting again but how long for? With the numbers rising?

I've got orthopaedic surgery pencilled in for next month. I'm not confident it will happen.

There seems to be a lot of variation between trusts/individual hospitals and GP practices. As a family we've had good experiences with GP/hospital/dentist/maternity recently, but I have also heard of lots that's really not been working well. I really hope that the govt will give the NHS what it needs next year, although I have my doubts...

The 4500 a day who die of cancer have been put on the back burner and refused treatment so this figure will rise. The 5000 a day suffering fatal heart attacks have been left out in the cold all in the name of Covid! One poor man died after being refused an important heart scan, he was 44!

My treatment has been delayed because it would put me at increased risk of COVID. I have had plenty of appointments though. There seems to be a lot of variation between trusts.