To think that BMI is not racist?

[Leanandmean31]

www.google.com/amp/s/www.huffpost.com/entry/bmi-scale-racist-health_l_5f15a8a8c5b6d14c336a43b0/amp

This stuff is ridiculous. BMI is just a calculation of someone’s weight in relation to height. So what that it originated through measuring mainly white men? Some racial groups may have higher levels of obesity which probably are related to issues like poverty but that fact doesn’t mean that being obese is healthy as this article seems to suggest.

It also mentions Samoa as an example where people can be healthy at a higher weight. Rubbish. Diabetes is very prevalent among Pacific island populations precisely because obesity is so common so the notion that they are healthy at a higher weight is rubbish.

AIBU to think that bopo and fat activism is going too far when it’s creeping over into telling the population that being overweight is perfectly fine and doesn’t affect health?

It is racist, and also sexist, to use mostly white men within your study population and then try to extrapolate that and create norms and expectations for women and people of color,” Strings told HuffPost. “They have not been included in the initial clinical analyses, and therefore their actual health outcomes cannot be determined by these findings.”

Not sure about it being racist or sexist (Jury still out) but I agree with this quote as making the default inaccurate for other groups of people. I've always thought under whose standards or whose weight is this norm with which to compare and judge others as healthy or not? Individual cases, sure but giving a number for everyone to aspire to - muscle mass, etc regardless - is ludicrous.

Never knew the origin of BMI anyway, you live and you learn.

Still reading...

Not all Pacific Islands... 😆

My mixed race sister, my friends are all overweight on BMi yet are size 6 and 8 and 10.

Black and mixed people weigh heavier than white people and white people weigh heavier than East Asian people at the same heights. It is borderline racist not to recognise this when BMi is used as an indicator of whether to offer a particular treatment or operation.

It took my size 12 friend 5 years to Gwt a breast reduction due to BMi when she wore a size 12 with 36k cup breast and finally proved her body composition with testing as she was failing the BMi criteria for a NHS breast reduction.

It's rarely mentioned by the white centric health authorities that the average black women has more muscle than then average white women. All these things make a difference.

I refuse to be calculated for BMi and I go by inches lost and weight lost when losing weight. Or they can go by my actual weight and clothing size.

For the last 5 years when asked to be weighed at doctor I refuse, except where needed to calculate my treatment like for recent iron infusions.

I believe it's majority/centric, rather than racist.

Like a lot of so-called racist things in society today, it's more about catering to the majority rather than being actively racist. Obviously this isn't good and needs addressing, but not every thing is racist.

“We cannot use weight as a marker of health,” Gaudiani said. “It just does not correlate, except on the very extremes.”

Generally speaking, I agree in that both skinny and fat people can be unhealthy but I feel there are exceptions or it's not as simple/absolute as that.

That said, I've just noticed this bit at the end... except on the very extremes. So I fully agree.

Agree with @flirtygirl completely.

DH is black and though he is very slim at the moment as he isn't eating as much and working out, his muscle composition is very high so this means he weighs more. He finds swimming quite challenging as he tells me how heavy he is with very little fat. When he was at his fittest a couple years ago he had a full health MOT at work and his body fat was only 6%! He is very naturally muscular. The black women we know are all more muscular than the white women I know. Obviously this is anecdotal but I'm sure there are studies on it.

Different ethnic groups can be more likely to have certain body types this isn't racist but it's hugely reductionist to base everything from a white malr. This clearly isn't representative.

Absolutely racist to use a single population for data where that data then informs treatment for a population with a different profile.

BMI flawed anyway - Almost all England rugby squad obese.

over time - Chap obese with muscular build and no excess fat. Loses 15 kg through losing 25kg muscle and gaining 10kg fat. BMI shows him healthier when he won't be.

mathematically flawed www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/255712#Is-it-too-simple?

Similarly absolutely sexist to use male data as the standard. COVID highlighted this for PPE measurements. Invisible women touches on this
www.amazon.co.uk/Invisible-Women-Exposing-World-Designed/dp/1784741728?tag=mumsnetforu03-21

structural racism and sexism prevalent in healthcare.

Well there’s nothing wrong with having separate scales for different races. I think they already do this for East Asian people who are told their BMI should be under 23 to avoid health risks.

I also agree that muscle isn’t taken into account but while that might push some into the overweight category it’s unlikely that you’d be obese or morbidly obese due to muscle. If you look at most pro athletes of whatever race, they do not have high body weights.

Many of them would be classed as overweight, not obese. 14 st at 6 foot is not obese. Also, those who are heavier often have a lot of visible fat so they probably are obese. Just because they play rugby doesn’t mean it’s good for their bodies to carry that weight.
I knew a guy who used to be a prop for the county rugby team. He was a great player but he was fat. His nickname was Tank and there is no way he was a healthy weight, despite the advantage it gave him on the pitch.

I think BMI is outdated and needs reviewing. At the fittest and healthiest I’ve ever been I was still a stone overweight according to BMI. I had lost 5.5 stone and was running between 5 and 10k every day, it was so disheartening that I gave up and piled it all back on. I wish I’d not been classified as being overweight still.

I believe it's majority/centric, rather than racist.
In terms of race, you might have a point (at least with regard to intent) but why only white men?
It’s completely flawed in methodology is the main point I think. Plus the fact it was only ever intended as a population measure, not for individual people.

To be clear, I mean why only men, not women. There are slightly more women than men, so using just men isn’t using the majority group.

It’s racist and sexist to take “White male” as the default. I had no end of issue with my ds not conforming to the height/weight lines in the red book. Ds was quite ill with a metabolic disorder but it wasn’t recognised as his low weight was seen as a product of his ethnicity. I knew there was something wrong but kept getting told that the data was for white babies and not to worry.
BMI is supposed to be a rough tool and while I’m fine with body builders, elite athletes and the ubiquitous rugby players being outliers, entire ethnic groups being othered isn’t really appropriate

I think BMI is a very inaccurate measurement of weight. For one muscle weighs more than fat so you can be very slim and fit and be classified as overweight. It also doesn't take into account different body compositions. If you look at dancers or gymnasts for example they're typically very short in stature but have a high muscle mass compared to none athletes they would be overweight.

It is exist and racist if the default standard by which all are measured is the white male (unless you are the white male and you're at the top of the power heap).

"Invisible Women" by Caroline Criado-Perez talks about how women are ignored in data gathering and statistics - often to our detriment - because the standards used for health & safety, for sizing, in many areas, are based on men and what fits the "average man".

It is sexist ^^

I’m amazed at the number of people on here who know what their muscle mass is 🤣

If you look at dancers or gymnasts for example they're typically very short in stature but have a high muscle mass compared to none athletes they would be overweight.

Lol highly unlikely. Look at the body weight of most athletes of all races and you will see that most of them are at the lower end of the BMI scale despite all their muscle. Mo Farah weighs around 9 stone for instance. Jessica Ennis-Hill is also about 9 stone. Most gymnasts and dancers are incredibly light.

Yes, in some cases, your BMI might be a little higher than what you look due to muscle or bone structure. However most of the time it is due to excess fat.

Yabu, CBA to post much more than that, as it's obviously idiotic to use white men as the default for everything.

YABU because the same is also applied to many other areas such as symptoms of illnesses (lets say rashes) and because the white male as default is predominant, it makes it hard to actually spot illness on other gender/ethnic groups.

Fwiw, body shapes are different from one person to the next. It is well known and researched that in Asian population, the thereshold for BMI and illness are different than for white people. I would iagine this is the same for people with African origin with again different body shape (think hips to waist ratio).

@Leanandmean31

If you look at dancers or gymnasts for example they're typically very short in stature but have a high muscle mass compared to none athletes they would be overweight.

Lol highly unlikely. Look at the body weight of most athletes of all races and you will see that most of them are at the lower end of the BMI scale despite all their muscle. Mo Farah weighs around 9 stone for instance. Jessica Ennis-Hill is also about 9 stone. Most gymnasts and dancers are incredibly light.

Yes, in some cases, your BMI might be a little higher than what you look due to muscle or bone structure. However most of the time it is due to excess fat.

I can quote you instead rugby players, soem swimmers etc...

Or I can take my dh as an example. High on the BMI scale but with very little fat (as evaluated by a doctor btw, think antropometric measurements, fat layers etc...). the BMi is a very gross tool to evaluate obesity. One that can be hepful but get meaningless very quickly wo even starting to talk about race or gender.

BMI is always presented as one measure and not perfect.

I think it is way harsher for short people than it is for tall people. So im not 100% behind it but still, it's one guide. You can consider other factors.

Of course BMI isn't perfect, but literally no measure would be, there will always be a few outliers. The issue with BMI in regards to race is as has been mentioned, and one example where this is problematic is black women are often subject to the extra tests etc whilst pregnant because their BMI is high, but actually they are a healthy weight. This means they are deemed high risk when actually they arent, because the measure used doesn't account for them.

Of course it is racist and sexist to use white men as the default in research etc so none of it applies to other people. That has been the case for decades - research has always focused on people (and white men at that) in WEIRD countries.

That's why women and people of colour are given inappropriate doses or types of medication, are not protected in car crashes, doctors don't know how to recognise disease in other groups, etc.

Also BMI is just not a good measure of health.