To think that BMI is not racist?

[Leanandmean31]

www.google.com/amp/s/www.huffpost.com/entry/bmi-scale-racist-health_l_5f15a8a8c5b6d14c336a43b0/amp

This stuff is ridiculous. BMI is just a calculation of someone’s weight in relation to height. So what that it originated through measuring mainly white men? Some racial groups may have higher levels of obesity which probably are related to issues like poverty but that fact doesn’t mean that being obese is healthy as this article seems to suggest.

It also mentions Samoa as an example where people can be healthy at a higher weight. Rubbish. Diabetes is very prevalent among Pacific island populations precisely because obesity is so common so the notion that they are healthy at a higher weight is rubbish.

AIBU to think that bopo and fat activism is going too far when it’s creeping over into telling the population that being overweight is perfectly fine and doesn’t affect health?

@Leanandmean31

www.google.com/amp/s/www.huffpost.com/entry/bmi-scale-racist-health_l_5f15a8a8c5b6d14c336a43b0/amp

This stuff is ridiculous. BMI is just a calculation of someone’s weight in relation to height. So what that it originated through measuring mainly white men? Some racial groups may have higher levels of obesity which probably are related to issues like poverty but that fact doesn’t mean that being obese is healthy as this article seems to suggest.

It also mentions Samoa as an example where people can be healthy at a higher weight. Rubbish. Diabetes is very prevalent among Pacific island populations precisely because obesity is so common so the notion that they are healthy at a higher weight is rubbish.

AIBU to think that bopo and fat activism is going too far when it’s creeping over into telling the population that being overweight is perfectly fine and doesn’t affect health?

It is racist to apply the white levels to all because Asian people are ‘obese’ at lower levels, and black people at higher levels. But I think most GPs know this - I have always been advised to lose weight, for example, when my BMI approaches 24.

BMI was debunked years ago as it isn’t accurate for the vast majority of people. Waist measurements are the best indicator of weight related health problems.

@Leanandmean31

Black people have different bone density to white people. It makes them heavier and hence you don’t see a lot of competitive black swimmers. So yes, BMI could be considered racist for failing to treat all people equally.

That’s odd because swimmers tend to be quite heavy compared to other athletes plus sports where black athletes dominate ie distance running usually have very thin and light competitors. It’s more likely due to socioeconomic reasons with black kids being less likely to have access to a swimming pool when growing up. It’s like how rugby is dominated by middle and upper classes whereas football is the exact opposite. It’s cultural rather than due to some biological factors.

What about the high percentage of black sprinters and boxers - it's not just long distance running.

@Leanandmean31

Well there’s nothing wrong with having separate scales for different races. I think they already do this for East Asian people who are told their BMI should be under 23 to avoid health risks.

I also agree that muscle isn’t taken into account but while that might push some into the overweight category it’s unlikely that you’d be obese or morbidly obese due to muscle. If you look at most pro athletes of whatever race, they do not have high body weights.

But that's exactly the problem. There isn't different scales for different races...

But the problem is that the article doesn’t show that BMI is inappropriate for entire racial groups. In fact it uses Samoa which has one of the highest obesity rates in the world but neglects to say that it also has a huge problem with poor health as a result and that it’s population is largely eating poor quality food imported from Australia or New Zealand and that this has caused obesity to soar.
They mention that in the US, black and Latin American people are on average worse affected by obesity. We’re talking obesity here, not a size 6 with heavy bones or whatever. Actual unhealthy obesity. The fact that it affects black and Latin Americans is likely to be tied to sociology-economic factors. Again, this does not mean that being obese is healthy for these people. It explains why they might be obese but it doesn’t remove the health risk.
As I said before, using dress sizes as an indication is useless because they vary so much. But unless we’re talking someone who is very short, if a genuine size 6 is a 23 inch waist then I do think it’s bollocks that a woman that small would be overweight. It’s very unlikely and I would guess broken scales rather than hidden muscle. If she is overweight, it would be by a very small amount and not in the obese category by any means. My cousin is mixed race and several of my friends are black or mixed race and this certainly isn’t a universal phenomena whereby black people tend to be very heavy yet skinny.

Muscle does not weigh more than fat. An ounce of muscle and an ounce of fat weigh the same.

But this is about volume, isn’t it?

A kilo of fat is bulkier than a kilo of muscle/a given volume of muscle tissue weighs more than the same volume of fat.

but there is also a huge obesity problem

Precisely. There is also something which has been called a diabesity epidemic. This describes the paradigm in which 90 percent of diabetics are Type 2. And 80 percent of Type 2 diabetics are overweight or obese at diagnosis. Meanwhile, the HuffPost article cites a sociology Professor as the source of its BMI critique. Sociology isn't a medical qualification.

Flirty, agree with you too.

I don't think you'll convince some here. I'd be interested in their reaction if a population of Polynesian or, say, Nigerian Igbo were used as the reference population for a tool that determined what treatment a group of Western European's of the opposite sex received. I hate to think what clinical decisions and health policies have a mechanistic use of BMI - would need to check whether some fertility treatment? Gastric reduction? Breast reduction?

It's like the sexism using white male sizing as the default for healthcare PPE hence women and smaller men have struggled with some PPE during lockdown, either being contaminated and risking their health or having sores from wearing ill-fitting kit. I thought the Invisible Women book deserved it's prize and I didn't know about some of the non-health care examples she uses. It's rubbish to think if you, your sister or someone's mother or daughter rocks up with a heart attack and doesn't present with the symptoms normally attributed to a man having a heart attack then she'll risk adverse outcomes. Or need a hospital trip because the car seat belt did;t protect her after a RTA as it would a man.

But that's exactly the problem. There isn't different scales for different races

Um, yeah there are. Did you not read the bit where the limits are different for Asian people? BMI itself just describes your weight in relation to height. Surely the bit people object to are the boundaries for what is deemed healthy. And these do vary according to race.
But research also suggests that black people are more susceptible to type 2 diabetes than white people so I am not sure whether medical professionals would think it’s a good idea to increase the boundaries.

Meant to attach to message above.

@Leanandmean31

Black people have different bone density to white people. It makes them heavier and hence you don’t see a lot of competitive black swimmers. So yes, BMI could be considered racist for failing to treat all people equally.

That’s odd because swimmers tend to be quite heavy compared to other athletes plus sports where black athletes dominate ie distance running usually have very thin and light competitors. It’s more likely due to socioeconomic reasons with black kids being less likely to have access to a swimming pool when growing up. It’s like how rugby is dominated by middle and upper classes whereas football is the exact opposite. It’s cultural rather than due to some biological factors.

What's odd is rebuking the opinion of black and mixed raced woman on the topic, as if you know better. Is this post even a question? Are you trying to educate yourself or not? Every time I visit my GP or midwife and have my BMI taken I'm always reassured that due to my ethnicity it will be higher, both by my white female GP and my black female GP. Goady post. Especially using examples of black athletes. It's like saying a whole race of people are wrong because I have a few that don't fit the majority. Ffs

BMI is meaningless. The book Invisible Women is great and is about how data bias against women in the worst case puts lives at risk

I’m a rugby player, I weigh around 97kg, I’m very lean and have low body fat. My BMI is 29, if I was white I would just be overweight, because I’m Asian anything over 27 should put me in the obese section, but because white and male is the default this doesn’t happen.

Obviously I’m not obese as I don’t have high body fat, but if I did I wouldn’t be considered obese in the UK until my BMI is 30 despite that being innapropriate for my ethnicity.

BMI is crap, I’m a type one diabetic and every year I fail my review as my BMI puts me as overweight, I have a 29/30 inch waist on a six foot frame!

My BMI is 23 now, after gained quite a lot during look down, I am within normal in England. But I would be very fat in my country.

What the actual fuck is the point of this entire thread apart from to goad us black and mixed raced people.

Enjoy your pseudoscience OP but I can't even understand your hypothesis or what you're trying to test here, aside from people's tolerance to b.s

The NHS BMI calculator does take ethnicity into account.

What's odd is rebuking the opinion of black and mixed raced woman on the topic, as if you know better.
Is this post even a question? Are you trying to educate yourself or not?
Every time I visit my GP or midwife and have my BMI taken I'm always reassured that due to my ethnicity it will be higher, both by my white female GP and my black female GP.

You don’t know my ethnicity. Also, do you think it’s fine to say that few black people are pro swimmers because they’re too heavy? I was pointing out that swimmers aren’t known for being dainty.

If your GP recognises that you’re likely to have a higher BMI due to ethnicity then that’s good. I totally recognise fluctuations based on ethnicity as I have said several times. What I am talking about is obesity. Having a BMI of 27 is unlikely to harm most people. A BMI of 37 is and being that weight can not be put down to genetic variations and whatever race you are, it’s not healthy. I don’t know why you would want doctors to ignore that.

@GinDaddyRedux
One of those all live natter fools who wants to be able to claim she's a victim of being called racist 😂

The Health Department BMI measuring tool in my country asks your date of birth and gender for the calculations, and also states that it is only an estimate and doesn't differentiate between muscle mass and body fat.

See this is why I'm also of the opinion that race is silly at best and making blanket statements with "white people" and "black people" can bring about rather simplistic results which are inaccurate at best.

Someone can be talking about a "black person" with a Jamaican or American in mind while another will be on the opposite side talking about a "black person" with a Kenyan or Nigerian in mind. Experiences and genetics may differ and results won't be the same, yet they are expected to be people with the same outcome or reference point because they're "black".

Someone mentioned Mo Farah and Usain Bolt as "black people" with affirming results of their point but as another person pointed out, their "blackness" (race based on brown skin colour?) isn't the determining factor but their ethnicity (heritage, genetics, etc).

I do think "race" should just be eliminated and social categories broken down into what they really are - ethnicity, culture, genetics, etc. However, like the bmi issue, it makes things more complex and things need to be simplified even if it means sacrificing or compromising on accuracy and individualism.

All these talks of blanket black/white people experience, etc confuse me sometimes because it's not as simple as that.

But that's not what you said before, OP.

And in answer to your original question, yes BMI tool appears racist if it's data was originally based on a single population of white men.

So as a theoretical example, if an English CCG has a policy that funded IVF is available if the woman has a BMI between 16 and 30. I vaguely recall there is a link between IVF success and not being too underweight or overweight so on the face of it, that might make sense. But suppose you take different ethnicities, then applying that flawed BMI tool would be used to exclude an Ethiopian woman with a BMI under 16 but who is healthier and with more muscle/is less 'under-weight' than a Western European white woman with a BMI of 16. Similarly, it would exclude an Igbo woman with a BMI of 30 who is healthier, more muscular and heavier boned and carrying less fat than a Western European white woman with a BMI of 29. Now it might be that these limits have been tested against different ethnicities or different limits are applied but if there's going to be a tool and it's going to be used then it may as well relate to more than one unrepresentative ethnicity. Otherwise the link between IVF success and body attributes is lost.

I'm a nurse and have never liked using bmi. I think waste circumference is more useful.

@fadeout you do realise the majority isn't white men??????? Like seriously

YABVU

Racist no. Ignorant more like.

You keep playing the race card whenever you see an 'anomaly' and then when it's for real, the claim will lack any gravitas. Please stop!!

@GinDaddyRedux

What the actual fuck is the point of this entire thread apart from to goad us black and mixed raced people.

Enjoy your pseudoscience OP but I can't even understand your hypothesis or what you're trying to test here, aside from people's tolerance to b.s

Thats how its looking GinDaddy