Urgent DH refused Annual Leave for next 2 weeks.

[booboo57]

Works starts on house on Monday. Two weeks leave requested over a month ago. Just got message that next week is full so cant have it off. Make a fuss or just call in sick?
He a trainer but since Covid he's been working nights which he hates. He was in tears with the stress of it all. Dont know what to advise.

If he is struggling he needs to talk to his ops manager and ask for a few days off as soon as possible. Explain to them he is at burn out point and needs a few days off to relax (not to look after builders!)

To just go off sick when holidays have been disallowed isn’t going to make any friends and is going to risk adding to the stress and workloads of his colleagues. They won’t believe it is anything other than a sticking two fingers up

It’s lovely that you want to support your dh but he didn’t have leave approved, so shouldn’t have booked the work on the house.
He doesn’t need to be in the house next week, he could check into a b&b or go to family or friends to sleep. You could keep an eye on the workmen as you are wfh.

So practically, having work done without leave isn’t an issue. The problem is he wanted time off and then to return to days. Work have given him one thing but not the other.
Whatever else, he shouldn’t call in sick. Being dismissed without a reference won’t help.

Alleviate his stress by browsing for jobs on Saturday and making positive plans together.

Sorry OP but I think you need to be much clearer on what you are asking for support/help with. I understand it can be difficult when you're upset but its difficult to work out what to advise.

Is the main issue he wont get any sleep? It that he needs a break regardless of the workmen? Is the way his employer is treating him? As you WFH I'm assuming you thought you could work through the noise, has this changed? Was it that you were planning on spending some time together? It would be easier to offer advice if we knew how (or if) it is any of these issues above or a mixture.

I don't see why OP is getting so much stick here and I do think she has answered all questions.

Her DP is frustrated. Treating employees right is a basic and being messed around about your leave is some what torture when you're gasping for a break.

I don't think there's any form of legal recourse but if you're sure that your DP could find another job then I'd probably quit.

Then those saying about gross misconduct - it's not automatic...Steve's off, he wanted leave, GROSS MISCONDUCT. They'd have to prove he wasn't actually unwell. All it takes a phone call to the GP about his mental health or just self certifying for a week instead of taking 2 off. Simple. They would never win a gross misconduct trial.

Sounds like his mental health is suffering, having a week off to avoid falling over with stress isn’t pulling a sicky. He’d need to get a note from his GP and perhaps discuss with his boss that he was clinging on for annual leave; rejection was the “straw that broke the camels back”.

This was what I way going to suggest, too.

Honestly - no-one should be so stressed and burned-out that something like this leaves them in tears. He is heading for a breakdown if this continues.

Was he really crying over this??
I mean actual tears?

I think the GP sicknote is definitely a good idea. The idea of someone that burnt out driving hgvs is actually kind of terrifying, for him and anyone else on the road.

Phoning in sick is the lowest form of behaviour,

Lower than pushing someone into a breakdown?

@sunshinewhereareyou

I don't see why OP is getting so much stick here and I do think she has answered all questions.

Her DP is frustrated. Treating employees right is a basic and being messed around about your leave is some what torture when you're gasping for a break.

I don't think there's any form of legal recourse but if you're sure that your DP could find another job then I'd probably quit.

Then those saying about gross misconduct - it's not automatic...Steve's off, he wanted leave, GROSS MISCONDUCT. They'd have to prove he wasn't actually unwell. All it takes a phone call to the GP about his mental health or just self certifying for a week instead of taking 2 off. Simple. They would never win a gross misconduct trial.

It’s a really bad error of judgement to go sick when refused leave. It does almost always trigger some form of performance response. And his actions will be seen to be suspicious because they are. People are right to advise against this.

It’s depressing and a no win situation to have to deal with August leave requests. And the easiest thing to do is say yes to all requests. But sometimes you can’t. The longer it was taking to say yes was a big clue that this wasn’t a straight forward option. The OPs husband has created his own stress here and he isn’t going to reduce his stress by using time off to oversee work on his house.

Lorry driver are treated like crap it's the job unfortunately. My husband leaves house 4am and comes home around 5pm before that he was long haul away for the week or two weeks. You have to be resilient to do the job.

Why cant you take leave to supervise builders? Surely dh can find somewhere else to kip? Push comes to shove if his lorry has sleeper cab and isnt used during the day could he sleep in it? Or look at booking a room for couple of weeks in a b and b?

@ssd

Was he really crying over this?? I mean actual tears?

Are men not allowed to cry?

It depends what the actual issue here is. If you're upset because you booked for work to be done on the house when his leave wasn't granted, that's a case of tough titty.

However, given that you're both struggling to deal with an inconvenience (you getting upset at this thread and your husband crying over leave being refused), it sounds like both of you are struggling at the moment and your husband needs to have time off for the sake of his own sanity. He should probably talk to his work again to explain how his mental health is being affected and that he desperately needs the time off in order to avoid being signed off later down the line.

@ssd

Was he really crying over this?? I mean actual tears?

What a depressing comment to make...so he's not allowed to break down?

He's a chap doing a tough job, he's being messed around by management, he wants his time with his family, who knows what other pressures and bullying is happening...

I think I can imagine breaking down in this scenario. I hope others can imagine this too and be sympathetic here.

If you want to play the "Men don't cry" scenario, then you tacitly are encouraging the repressed culture that leads to so many male suicides in this country.

I’m not so sure the “it’s summer holidays” argument is valid here. Our directors have been begging people to take leave. Barely anyone has booked for the summer period. Kids have been off school for months, the next 6 weeks is just an extension of that. We’re not all jetting off to the sun in the next few weeks.

I guess the issue is, OP should have confirmed whether it was approved or not. The options now are, call in sick, leave the job, book a hotel or cancel the work. Pick which one is least likely to impact on family/finances.

I think you have to suck up the fact that his leave wasn't approve and find a strategy to handle the time he'll be on nights and the builders in. That's your priority.

Then i think he needs to go into work and say that he has covered the nights during the worst of the crisis and now he wants to go back to days as they indicated he would (notwithstanding they said "after holiday" which is bollocks as it wasn't approved so there is no holiday). And if the answer to that is "no" then he should find a new job that suits him (and you) better. He should tell his boss that the nights are causing him stress and that he feels that he can't continue to work like this without an end date in sight. (if he keeps up with the request, once a week until it's sorted if he later has to take time off to manage his stress he's already built up their expectation of this, IYSWIM?)

Another thing he might try, although the chances of this are very slim, is to show the message (he does have it in writing?) that says "after your holidays" and say that he has assumed it was cleared? Guilt them into getting in an agency worker (won't be hard but is expensive)

Is he in a union? (expecting "no" so my next question is "why not?" join one now)

Given he seems very stressed, as do you, i think your priority must be managing the stress (and how to handle the next two weeks)

Don't call in sick. That's a dick move and a sackable offence.
Chalk the vacation up to experience: it is never approved until you have the signature on your request.

@ssd

Was he really crying over this?? I mean actual tears?

And if the anser is Yes, real tears, what is your point?

@pigoons

NRFT but stress is a perfectly legitimate reason to go off sick and it may be worth doing this if your DH thinks he can negotiate better terms and conditions on his return. And I think in these circumstances the holiday issue can be explained by him saying "I was getting burnt out, asked for annual leave weeks ago as I knew I needed a break and then it was declined weeks after I requested it'.

Not getting your own way is not really stress is it. He has never had the leave approved. He’s being extremely naive to think some kind of verbal conversation is enough to hint at it being approved.

If he is unhappy with the way he is being treated then he needs to vote with his feet. So apply for jobs elsewhere and then give notice. You said that drivers are like gold dust so it shouldnt be too hard. He should join a union too.

And dont believe anything an employer says until you get it in writing.

His employer is behaving really unprofessionally- to dangle the annual leave like a carrot, get him to do extra unpaid work, delay giving an answer for a month only to say no at the last minute is shitty behaviour.

If you think he would have no problem getting another job quickly and you can afford a potential delay before next pay packet then yes I would phone in sick with stress/exhaustion.

And look for another job pronto.

Right, so whilst it was fairly clear reading between the lines that the holiday was never approved, it would have been helpful to actually state that up front - or after the first time of asking.

This thread should not be full of people discuss government guidance to employees of length of time reasonable to retract leave.

Look - he’s just caught up in the shit it Covid like everyone else. It’s really hard - I feel for him, and I feel for you.

But you need to think about his employment in the wider context of how they have previously been as an employer, and what is reasonable in the current situation. Then, make a decision whether to jump ship or not. Because if prioritising driving over training and not approving leave is a Covid reaction, he might find the same elsewhere.

You won't answer the question what the problem is with the builders will you.
Is it he won't be able sleep?
Is it you will have no one oversee the builders.
If it's the former several suggestions have been made to you and if it's the latter you need to employ builders you trust and have a clear contract with them and plans of exactly what you want. My DH is in the building trade and has always preferred to work without the owner there and in fact says you get more done without being constantly interrupted. It also smacks of not being trusted. If we have any work done outside my Dh's particular trade, for example plumbing l mark out exactly where l want the new rad or what height l want the new shower head or whatever with marker pen and l point them to the cups, kettle and biscuit tin and go out for the day, leave them to it but they have both our mobile numbers if a query.
As for having no toilet facilties or a ility buy food, then take a flask, bottle of water and packed sandwiches or whatever. He must be managing, service stations etc. are open as far as toilet facilities are concerned.. My son in law is a hgv driver on nights on and off and has had no problems regarding this and drives all over the country.

It sounds like he’s already reached his limit with working nights; he’s exhausted and stressed and struggling with the hours.

Working night shifts is really difficult on people anyway. Now he won’t be able to sleep because of the work going on in the house?

I’d be worried that he won’t be safe to work with little to no sleep on top of being already overwhelmed by the schedule. Is there an HR Department there? It does sound like he’s being treated shabbily.

Can you take some time off to be with him for a few days and give him some support?

I do think he should consider calling in sick (given his mental state I don’t think that’s unreasonable) and really consider leaving to find a new job.

@
@booboo57HGV 1 s are like gold dust round here. Could probably walk into job tomorrow. Company has 3 vacancies at moment.
Something being “like gold dust” means it is rare , so the opposite of what you said.

@CiderJolly you don’t know that they’ve been dangling the leave at all.

They might have been - they might be utter shits.

But they also might have said, “we’ll do everything we can, but it’s the first week of school summer hols, other people have been booked off for far longer than your month’s notice. We’ll need to get agency, and both our own work and agency availability is totally unprecedented because of Covid.”

They then might have done everything they can - but not been able to get the cover needed. It’s not that last minute... it’s a full working week of notice that they can’t do it. A week’s notice is shit for an approved holiday. It’s not shit if he was told they couldn’t approve it, but would if they could. It all depends on the communication.

Certainly, it was unwise to book work on the house for an unapproved leave request, if it’s that critical that he is present. Although as a PP, OP didn’t respond to questions about what the issue was - presence or sleep of something else.

I’ve worked nights in a warehouse - and transport office. It’s really really hard, how the nights catch up with you. I’m not surprised yes suffering, and I feel for him. But I don’t have the sane certainty that his employer is taking the piss. Even the shunting work unpaid... I’m salaried. Sometimes, that means unpaid hours to get the job done. I work for a great company. Yes, I’ve worked unpaid until midnight when there’s been an issue - but no-one minds me taking 2 hours off paid to nip up to school sports day. That’s why I suggested OP look at the history with the company.

At this point, her husband hasn’t even queried it 🤷🏻‍♀️ For all we know, if he calls his manager today she says, “I’m struggling here, I need this break” then they’ll sort it.