Is it me or DP?

[justcheckingyourenotacake]

Disclaimer - we have a good relationship and are happy most of the time and this is a very rare occurrence.

I feel like I'm going mad when we have certain discussions.

Example: today we were talking over breakfast and I brought up a few different subjects, I was trying to get to a point and said "we know we are damaging the planet" (as in humans not just me and him) and he said "are we though?" I was

Completely derailed the conversation which then went like this:

Me - yes we are its not uncommon knowledge
Him - how do we know that we are, how can you know
Me - (more and more perplexed) why don't you read up and learn more about it before we discuss it anymore
Him - (getting huffy) you can't have a conversation with you this is always your reaction
Me - because you always question the weirdest things, are you saying we are not damaging the planet?
Him - maybe, I don't know how do you actually know
Me - how do you not know?
Him - but we always discuss these things and you can never elaborate when I question things
Me - do you want links? I can send you links.

From then it went back and forth with his points being:

• we are just speeding up the process it probably would've happened some other way if it wasn't for us
• how do you know what damage we are actually doing

Upon me asking if he's not concerned about the world we are leaving for our DCs - how do you know future generations won't be inhabiting a different planet after this ones done - I pointed out why can we not just look after the one we have?

• if it's not us it would've been something else
• you are talking about deforestation but in other places they are replanting trees
• maybe it's all just part of evolution
• how can you know it's us doing the damage - what else?!

When I talked to him about the images I showed him of polluted oceans and suffering animals - what is that actually leading to though?

I don't know if he's trying to very poorly suggest different theories and have a "what if" type discussion or maybe he's got valid points and it's me being daft?
Is he just looking for me to throw evidence his way?

I'm not the best at debates as I don't get my point across very well but I honest feel like banging my head against the wall afterwards. In my head I'm just going "are you seriously questioning IF we are damaging the planet?!"

AIBU and should I be more open to discussion or is he BU and talking crap?

I think it's a little of both to be honest.
On one level he possibly is trying to open the discussion up but, without having met him or seeing how he does this, my instinctive reaction is he's undermining you a little - you know, in the way bad teachers sometimes did years ago, like 'justify your reasoning'. This feels awful and YABU for being frustrated about it. It's also not a great way of engaging in discussion generally, maybe he is just not a very skilled conversationalist. I would respond with, 'can you give me your ideas on this subject please? What do you think?'

Why is his way of debate less valid than yours? I’d probably say the same thing to be honest ( not on this particular issue). You sound a bit like an A level teacher telling a student off for not properly structuring their essay!

Maybe he is just trying to open a debate but do we have to actually debate IF we are damaging the planet? I thought that was pretty established by now?

Omg my DH is exactly the same and I completely understand your frustration !!! Arghh!!!

Maybe pre-breakfast is not the time to be having debates?

Your way of debating is not more valid than his. I can see why it's annoying for you, but I can also see why it's annoying for him.

He sounds like a moron.. sorry.

He sounds dim.

I can see why he's annoyed, you've not given any reason to your argument at all. Just shut it down with "read some links"
You need to be able to back up why you believe something to be true

Me - how do you not know?
Him - but we always discuss these things and you can never elaborate when I question things
Me - do you want links? I can send you links.

Why did you offer to send him links? I find that quite a strange thing to do during a discussion. Couldn't you have given him examples to back up your position? (I'd say this no matter what the topic is)

I think you both sound like you're being unreasonable.

Does he really believe that climate change isn’t a thing? You’re right, OP, he needs to educate himself.

Do explain your point of view and evidence to him? Me and DH have debates where we disagree (often on politics) and I find it quite infuriating when he can’t back up what he’s saying. I think if you’re going to bring something up like that then you need to be able to back it up.
Although I do think the climate change one is fairly obvious that we’re doing damage but I still think you need to back up what you’re saying

I also think it’s both of you. He is arguing a basic premise but your come back of basically telling him to educate himself is smug and irritating.

Is he like my DH, and refuses to commit 100% to something being true unless he's seen it with his own eyes? Drives me mad! Example:
Me: Oh I liked that restaurant - we went there on holiday last year, didn't we?
DH: Probably, yes.
Me: We definitely did, I remember.
DH: Yes, probably
Me: There is no 'probably', I remember it very clearly!
DH: Well I don't, that's why I'm saying probably
Me:

Eugh, he's really, really thick. Do you have sex with this idiot?! Don't have kids.

Is he of low intelligence?

Is he like this about everything you discuss or just certain things?
It sounds like this is his normal way if having an argument. As long as he keeps you in JADE mode, Justify, Argue, Defend, Explain, it keeps him in the high status position.
This gives a nice explanation
blogs.psychcentral.com/imperfect/2018/03/dealing-with-difficult-family-members-dont-justify-argue-defend-or-explain/
Sounds like he's pushing your buttons on purpose.

To be fair I would find this challenging but that's because I (and you it seems) have a sort of 'shorthand' approach to developing my opinion on something. I for example would absolutely agree it's a given human beings are damaging the planet. I know this is the scientific consensus and that's good enough for me. But.... precisely because it is the scientific consensus I haven't gone out of my way to understand the details of how those in the know have arrived at that conclusion. I couldn't answer your husband's questions (which are a bit devil's advocate). I am content to say I trust certain sources of opinion. It's like vaccines; I don't know WHY they don't cause autism, but I'm happy to believe they don't based on the almost 100% agreement within the (legitimate) medical community that they don't.

It is a kind of intellectual laziness, and it's grown on me in 'old' age (basically since having kids and having bugger all time to myself, so the time I do get I spend in unchallenging pleasure-reading like MN ). I used to be far more inquisitive, challenging and much better informed. I used to absolutely love a good debate and could wipe the floor with almost anyone on an issue I cared enough about to start a conversation about.

Nowadays, if someone questioned me on my 'stands to reason' opinions in the way your husband is doing, I'd feel shown up and caught out. But he wouldn't be wrong to ask the questions. I SHOULD know, if I'm going to state an opinion strongly, what I'm basing this on, and be able to summarise it in brief to whoever I'm trying to convince. If I can't, then my response shouldn't just be to day 'it's obvious!' and hastily assemble some links supporting my position; I should have already read and more importantly processed that information in order to actually know what it is I'm saying I believe and why, including the main counterarguments.

So yeah, he's being annoying but you're being lazy. Maybe you're both just in different places and you no longer have the time or inclination for undergraduate style 'challenge the eternal verities' type debate (or certainly not without the kids in bed and a large glass of wine in hand)??

My DP and I love a good debate. I know that I can get quite passionate and heated, whilst he is a very cool and collected kind of person. If he says something that I know nothing about, I would expect him to explain it to me before I could engaged in the debate properly.

Obviously, we are damaging the planet and I am somewhat surprised that your DP is unaware of this, but if he asks you about it, and you want to discuss it, then you need to explain it to him. I wouldn't be going off to conduct research just to engage in a debate with DP (unless I was particularly interested in it and wanted to win the debate!! )

How snide calling him thick just because he doesn’t debate the way OP does

Thanks all, to be honest I was just a bit stumped with his comments as I wasn't starting a debate I just said "we know we are damaging the planet" whilst getting to my point about something else we were discussing and he intercepted with it.
As PPs have said I didn't think we had to debate on IF climate change is actually a thing - I thought it's common knowledge but I'm happy to accept if I'm wrong.

He was saying "you don't know if we are actually doing the damage" when I pointed out multiple studies and masses of research on the subject he said "but how do these people know they are right".

But you are not backing up your argument any more than he is.

You say its common knowledge, but back in the mist of times it was 'common knowledge' that they Earth was flat and the challenge to change that belief took an incredibly long time....and factual evidence. You need to be able to present evidence and facts.

He is quite right to challenge you to produce this.

Him - maybe, I don't know how do you actually know
Me - how do you not know?

He doesn’t care enough to find out?
He care enough to read more about what he does know?
He doesn’t watch documentaries or the news?
He’s been listening to Donald Trump?

I think it's you to be honest...
Telling him you can "send him some links" is not a debata and doesn't really prove your point.
He is allowed to question if/ what impact we have on the planet and if you feel strongly about it you should be able to give him solid examples and what are we doing to earth i.e burning fossil fuels, realeasing greenhouse gases, temperatures rising, glaciars melting, realese of toxic gases due to glaciars melting, more greenhouse effect, floods etc. etc.
He is allowed to disagree saying temp changes are natural phenomena in earths cycle, earth will "self regulate" and deal with greenhouse gases by increased vegetation that absorbs the co2 for example etc etc.
You respond with your counter arguments..
It's a debate!
I would feel the person talking to me has no clue and is ignorant if they told me they will send me links..

He doesn’t care enough to read more about what he does know?

Well I'm not sure if I am damaging the planet. I filled a hole in the garden the other day, that a fox had made, so I feel that I'm actually repairing the planet.