Is it me or DP?

[justcheckingyourenotacake]

Disclaimer - we have a good relationship and are happy most of the time and this is a very rare occurrence.

I feel like I'm going mad when we have certain discussions.

Example: today we were talking over breakfast and I brought up a few different subjects, I was trying to get to a point and said "we know we are damaging the planet" (as in humans not just me and him) and he said "are we though?" I was

Completely derailed the conversation which then went like this:

Me - yes we are its not uncommon knowledge
Him - how do we know that we are, how can you know
Me - (more and more perplexed) why don't you read up and learn more about it before we discuss it anymore
Him - (getting huffy) you can't have a conversation with you this is always your reaction
Me - because you always question the weirdest things, are you saying we are not damaging the planet?
Him - maybe, I don't know how do you actually know
Me - how do you not know?
Him - but we always discuss these things and you can never elaborate when I question things
Me - do you want links? I can send you links.

From then it went back and forth with his points being:

• we are just speeding up the process it probably would've happened some other way if it wasn't for us
• how do you know what damage we are actually doing

Upon me asking if he's not concerned about the world we are leaving for our DCs - how do you know future generations won't be inhabiting a different planet after this ones done - I pointed out why can we not just look after the one we have?

• if it's not us it would've been something else
• you are talking about deforestation but in other places they are replanting trees
• maybe it's all just part of evolution
• how can you know it's us doing the damage - what else?!

When I talked to him about the images I showed him of polluted oceans and suffering animals - what is that actually leading to though?

I don't know if he's trying to very poorly suggest different theories and have a "what if" type discussion or maybe he's got valid points and it's me being daft?
Is he just looking for me to throw evidence his way?

I'm not the best at debates as I don't get my point across very well but I honest feel like banging my head against the wall afterwards. In my head I'm just going "are you seriously questioning IF we are damaging the planet?!"

AIBU and should I be more open to discussion or is he BU and talking crap?

@Justtryingtobehelpful that JADE thing is REALLY interesting and explains to me why I am currently having trouble with my DP as I've stopped doing this in our 'personal' disagreements/issues!

The usual way we get to the bottom of anything is he silently indicates he has a problem but won't say anything, I probe, prod, theorise, suggest, explain - basically have a whole discussion where I do two people's worth of the heavy lifting while he just says 'dunno' and 'maybe' and behaves like I'm verbally battering him.

I hate the way this makes me feel (simultaneously like a supplicant and a bully) so now, I've started asking him upfront "is there something you want us to talk about?", he'll say '"no" or "I don't know" and I'll just say "OK, well I'm here for you and ready to listen if you do" and get on with my life. And it turns out that he hates it and is even more annoyed!

The JADE thing suggests to me that his silence/refusal to engage wasn't actually because he didn't want the issue dealt with... he just wanted me to take all the emotional risk inherent in having the conversation!

He sounds very philosophical in his thinking and debating, you sound like there has to be proof and facts to support everything.

It is only by questioning and critiquing the established way of thinking that we make new discoveries. I am probably like your DH. The earth is over 350 million years old. I think it will be just fine. The human race on the other hand, probably not.

I don’t think most people would be ready to provide evidence that we are damaging the planet, because it’s so much a given.

If the conversation had been about how many degrees the global temperature would rise in the next ten years, then you’d expect to have to say where you read or heard it.

That’s why the OP suggested links. It’s like having to argue that racism exists.

He sounds very philosophical in his thinking and debating He really doesn’t! 😂

Uneducated maybe!

I don't know.
The other day we were discussing sexual assault/rape topics and he said stuff like "women need to be more careful and don't drink too much" "women need to be wary of what they dress like when going out because we live in a country with so many cultures mixed together and certain people coming from different religions/backgrounds/cultures in which the woman is a commodity and they come to the uk and have never seen women so liberal and think it's a free for all"

He read an article about a girl being raped by an acquaintance who offered to walk her home after a night out and he said "come on why would she think it's ok for HIM to walk her home - have you seen him?" I was

Ah well now your changing the issue slightly OP. You know we are all going to agree with you on that one, but that’s a different point to the one in your original post.

Thing is, when it comes to climate change, there is debate. That it is happening is pretty accepted. To what level it is human activity vs how much is the natural cycles of the planet is more up for debate.
Offering him links and telling him to read more (educate yourself shudder) before you can discuss further is lazy. It seems you weren't aware that there was any debate around this so I guess it was a shock to you that your discussion got derailed, but it's important to know these things aren't as clear cut as the media tends to make out.
I had someone in my life with very strong views that this is not mostly man-made. He had a lot of research and stats to back it up. We absolutely didn't agree, however we found common ground that as we don't know for sure we should act as though we are causing it.

I think he sounds like he is addressing some kind of issue. It might be partly that he wanted you to acknowledge that you don’t have specific evidence but what you describe sounds more like he can’t allow you to be right-to agree with you would mean that you somehow had the last word, were in charge... I would be trying not to be drawn into this process-when he plays the “but are we?” card, just step back with “it’s something that I fervently believe, but it’s up to you what you believe. Anyway, more tea, dear?”

This is one of those weirdly divided threads where I saw it and thought TOTALLY one way and am astonished that others see it different!

Sorry @MrsGrindah the OP was just one example of the type of stuff we talk about - I'm not very good at getting my point across. I just find it exasperating sometimes.
If I say something and how it's wrong he'll not say "ah yes that's shit" and move on he will ask a weird question or say something I personally find weird. Maybe I'm just touchy...

Another example:

Me : loosely discussing sexual assault/rape cases where there were instances of victim blaming in court
Him : but women do need to be aware/watch how they dress/be on guard / not get too drunk because there are men from all walks of life in the uk some who have come from very different cultures and haven't seen women be so liberal and see it as a free for all and can't help it
Me : that still doesn't make victim blaming ok! If you are saying men can't possibly control themselves because they've seen a bit of cleavage or a mini skirt they they need to be in a zoo not out in society! Women shouldn't have to be scared / censor what they wear / not be able to go out and let their hair down because "some men can take it the wrong way"
Him : I'm not saying it's right but this is the way the world is right now, our government let's all sorts of people into the country and we don't know who they are.

Which I suppose in itself is fine but then he'll comment on something like I've mentioned in my PP about why on earth a victim would allow someone who looks like the rapist to walk them home in the first place - like why wouldn't you if you thought that person was your friend? Should a woman risk walking on her own at 2 am because she shouldn't even be able to trust people who she thinks are her friends?

Honestly he just sounds that rather unattractive mix of thick and male that always adopts that slightly incoherent and belligerent way of 'discussing' anything.

They don't have the knowledge or understanding (or interest) to actually discuss. So it's all about the batting back, even when it's patently stupid. 'Ahh, but how do you even KNOW it's us damaging the planet?' - eeek. What can you even say to that!

Not possible to ask questions, or say 'Oh that's interesting, I wasn't aware of that' - because that would be to show weakness, wouldn't it, and what with him having a penis and you not... well, that would never do.

Your post on his attitude to rape confirms it.

Don't bother engaging is the only way really. If he's generally ok except when you try and engage him in debate out of his depth and the testosterone nobbishness comes out - just save your debates for more intelligent folk.

"29Greysparkles

I can see why he's annoyed, you've not given any reason to your argument at all. Just shut it down with "read some links"
You need to be able to back up why you believe something to be true"

Actually, I don't think "sending links" is shutting down the conversation. I absolutely couldn't argue (with statistics and references) that we are destroying the planet, because a) I'm rubbish at remembering specifics and b) especially so when I'm emotionally invested in a topic. However, there is a scientific consensus that we are indeed causing climate change and that our use of resources is destroying habitats, including ours. There are many resources to "link" to that will lay out the information much better than I could. It's not much different to giving someone a book to read about the topic, then agreeing to discuss it later.
It sounds to me as if OP's DH is arguing for the sake of getting OP on the back foot. It gratifies him, and he sounds like a bit of a jerk.

I'd be infuriated as well OP and agree with @GreyishDays that it's a given that we're damaging the planet. It's a bit like being caught off guard having to prove that the sky is blue.

My OH does that sometimes - I'd mention Elon Musk and he'd have no clue who it was. I'd be incredulous and list a whole lot of things Elon is known for and point out that he's in the news all the time. OH would respond "well he can't be as famous as you think he is, or I'd have heard of him". Makes me want to bash my face against the wall. Tbh I'm slowly starting to realise my OH is a bit dim at times, and yours sounds the same - he might just be using his inane argument tactics to hide it with?

Juno231 you have one too.

It's just male twattishness.

Find cleverer men is the answer. You're not there to make the thicker ones feel better about themselves.

Honestly OP - your last two updates cement it - he’s a combination of stupid and sexist and that would be the end for me.

@justcheckingyourenotacake

*The other day we were discussing sexual assault/rape topics and he said stuff like "women need to be more careful and don't drink too much" "women need to be wary of what they dress like when going out because we live in a country with so many cultures mixed together and certain people coming from different religions/backgrounds/cultures in which the woman is a commodity and they come to the uk and have never seen women so liberal and think it's a free for all"

He read an article about a girl being raped by an acquaintance who offered to walk her home after a night out and he said "come on why would she think it's ok for HIM to walk her home - have you seen him?" I was shock*

Ok yeah he's just a prick. If you'd started with that one could have saved yourself a thread of replies defending his philosophical approach to climate change.

I have some sympathy with both sides here. J think sometimes people are too accepting of things, without challenging them. The flat earth example someone have earlier was a very good one.

Most of us do not have the specialist knowledge and time/inclination to do our own research into eg climate change or vaccinations. We rely on evidence and opinions of experts. Experts do not always agree and it is right for us to question their conclusions rather than accepting them blindly.

Sending links is no answer because you can probably find evidence to support any view on the internet somewhere. It sounds like your husband is wanting to know what evidence you have seen and why you think it

It reminds me a bit of a discussion about schools that my father once told me he was part of, along with my mother and some others. Someone said
'X is a good school' and everyone else agreed. My father asked how they knew and what their criteria were for deciding what was a good school. My father told me this story so I will allow for some bias but apparently my mother and all the other women couldn't understand why he was challenging them because 'everyone knew' it was a good school. It was a good school because it always had been and everyone always said it was. They didn't seem to have any view of what the features of a good school were and how this one measured up. They were happy to accept that it was one simply because everyone said it was. This was long before the internet, but if it happened now I can imagine one of them offering to post links to a site which shiwedthat it was a good school

Sorry. Wasn't quite ready to send.

I can imagine someone posting links to a site saying it was a good school. But it wouldn't have satisfied my father who wanted a more fundamental discussion.

I suspect the OP's husband is a bit like my father was.

@FizzyGreenWater

Honestly he just sounds that rather unattractive mix of thick and male that always adopts that slightly incoherent and belligerent way of 'discussing' anything.

They don't have the knowledge or understanding (or interest) to actually discuss. So it's all about the batting back, even when it's patently stupid. 'Ahh, but how do you even KNOW it's us damaging the planet?' - eeek. What can you even say to that!

Not possible to ask questions, or say 'Oh that's interesting, I wasn't aware of that' - because that would be to show weakness, wouldn't it, and what with him having a penis and you not... well, that would never do.

Your post on his attitude to rape confirms it.

Don't bother engaging is the only way really. If he's generally ok except when you try and engage him in debate out of his depth and the testosterone nobbishness comes out - just save your debates for more intelligent folk.

FizzyGreenWater has nailed it.

He doesnt know anything about this subject (or any subject by the sounds of it) but instead of admitting that, he questions the entire premise of what you've said. It's so ridiculous that it catches you on the back foot, you struggle to understand ('is he actually saying climate change isn't real? That rape victims are asking for it? That the Moon Landings were a hoax?') And he, in all of his cretinous glory, feels like he's won the argument when actually his stupidity has just baffled you into silence.

Can you respect a man like this? I'd dump him for the rape comments alone.

Some PPs have a point. To be honest he very rarely admits I'm right/I've proven a point. We usually just kind of leave the conversation at that.

Another comment I made once during a conversation about something (this might be crap of me but I think it's true) was that the majority of rapists are men - again he said "I don't know, are they?" , I said that I think we can establish that based on history and practically every news story that ever talks about rape/sexual abuse is male on female not the other way around - him: "but what about the stories we don't hear about?" (I don't know if he maybe referred more to men also being victims of domestic violence which is a different subject on its own) but basically we went around in circles with him deflecting and it came back around to me saying "so you don't think the majority of sexual assaults/rapes are male on female" and he said something along the lines of "they probably are" or "you're probably right" but again not "yes you're right" it's always "maybe".

Is that the way you normally conduct conversations? I don't think he is wrong at all to initially question if we are damaging the planet. It shows a mind that isn't just going to accept everything he is told. (I do agree with you though that humankind are damaging the planet).

However, you started the conversation, he questioned it and you ask if he wants links to research it. Bloody hell, he just wanted to sit and eat breakfast.
If you have a conversation with him and he questions something, why can't you elaborate by telling him of what you have learned in your research? That is all he is asking. I totally get where he is coming from. I think the problem is you. Why do you then give him a job of research to do? Can't you articulate what you've learnt by telling him of things you've read. That would be a more normal conversation.
'I read the other day that....... What do you think?'

It sounds as if him trying to partake in the conversation you initiate is like pulling teeth.

Oh for fuck's sake. Your last post.

Do you want to spend your life with a third rate person? Because that's what you have.

Ffs OP - you’re with an actual for real idiot.

Ooh, sorry OP, I hadn't read your updates. I don't think he was being unreasonable in questioning about us harming the planet but questioning whether most rapists are men sounds like he is just being awkward.

You started by saying you have a good relationship and are happy most of the time. Are you sure?