To not want to sell the family home

[Schleich]

StbxDH and I have decided to separate. We have 4 kids still living at home. We are mid forties. He is full time and major breadwinner, I’m part time, much lower earner.

Our only assets are the family home (equity is about 25% of the house value for our 5 bed home) and quite a lot of pensions. No savings at all.

He wants kids 50:50, which I’m upset about but can’t really argue with - he’s a really good Dad and has a very flexible job, he spends loads of time with them now. He’s not doing it for the money - we’ve gone on the child maintenance calculator and he is offering to pay me 20% more than the amount he would pay if he was only having them one day per week. He’s offered to get it put into writing.

However, because we have no savings he is insisting we sell the family home to release equity, split the equity equally and buy a smaller home in a worse area each with the deposit plus mortgage. He says without doing this he will either have to rent (which he HATES - he bought a house as soon as he got his first proper job because he hates the idea of renting so much!), or buy a bedsit or small flat, which would be too small to have the kids stay. He says to get a rental big enough to house all the kids comfortably would be unaffordable (I’ve checked, and he’s right), or at the least would prevent him ever being able to get back on the property ladder. He also has a dog, which he loves, and most rentals don’t allow pets.

He knows that a court would likely give me more than 50% of the assets, and says that he is happy to give me whatever proportion of the pensions a mediator considers necessary to make it a fair settlement.

I really don’t want to move. On my relatively low salary I’ll be limited in how much of a house I can buy with half the equity (although he says I should be able to get a mortgage which takes maintenance into account). It’s likely the children will have to share bedrooms for the first time in their lives, and their ages/genders make this a bit difficult.

We did talk to the mortgage adviser and she said that that buying him out would be very difficult due to my earnings and the high price of the house, and would incur mortgage penalties which would wipe out 20% of the equity to switch to a mortgage company which might allow it (ours won’t take into account maintenance payments). He might be able to buy me out based on his income, but not if he is paying me maintenance - because I’d need the maintenance agreed in writing for my mortgage company to take into account but that would then impact on his borrowing ability!!

I suppose I just don’t want the children to suffer as a result of our decision to split up, and all I can see is them having to switch back and forth between two homes which are much to small for our big family.

You could offer to leave his pension alone in return for the house, if staying there is important to you
Remember he can offer you a higher level of child maintenance than CSA states, and then stop the payments once you have agreed and sold the house.
You need good legal advice

The nesting concept won't work in the long term. Having each other's stuff around you means you can't move on. It's ok for a few months but that is all.

And listen to the people who say that you should see a solicitor. The fees are high but it will be worth it in the long run. The only DIY divorce that I've seen done successfully was when the couple had no children and there was no animosity.

Let's bear in mind that if you were to 'nest' with a smaller property nearby for each parent's 'off time' this needn't necessarily be for the 8 years until the youngest reaches 18 (or leaves full time education).

The eldest 2 could both have left home in 4/5 years. I left at coming up 19 and never went back to live with my parents, there was room there for me but there needn't have been. Alternatively you could have saved enough in 3 years of working FT for you to be in a better position if you were to sell and buy something else.

It doesn't sound like this split is acrimonious so perhaps sticking it out a few more years in a less than perfect scenario for you would be the best solution in this case. Obviously if there was an affair or any kind of abuse or fighting this is absolutely not what I'd be suggesting.

@Atadaddicted

All this you need a better job

It’s not going to happen. You’ve either not worked or worked part time for 25 years
You have 4 kids
You’re in your forties (yeah yeah “well I made a career change at 48 etc etc)

But mainly - the economy is decimated!!!!

So I would avoid even mentioning this as possibility in discussions or well and truly batting it out the court

All this!

I think you might need to tough it out for another year and let the dust settle. The timing is bad yes, but also you have 4 children! I know people change but you sound very selfish. Got married to have those kids, now bored and want a divorce. No. You brought 4 kids into the mix. They can’t feel the sands shifting under their feet because their mum has changed her mind. So unfair.

My husband was in this exact position 8 years ago, thought he was happily married, main breadwinner, 3 kids at home and working all the hours he could to maintain a nice life for him, his wife (now ex) and the kids. She was bored didn't want to work full time and decided she wanted out, house was sold, equity was split 50%, not enough for either party to buy another house with reasonable mortgage payments as age was a factor, and the kids all over the place. She is still bored and not working full time and is now regretting the decision she made.
He on the other hand, has moved on remarried and is happier than ever. I would seriously ask you to think this through, you can get counselling and try to find a way back to enjoying your Husbands company.

Finding a full time job with flexibility for the children at this time will be a miracle.

Missed the OP post that she is driving the divorce .(Sorry I interpretated the other way round!) I would think long and hard OP .25 years is a long time to be married( especially if you married young).Day to day life with a family can become humdrum and the grass often looks greener! You say DH is a good husband/dad .Judging by many posts on here you are lucky and somewhat unusual to boot! Maybe try Counselling ? A good friend divorced her DP,/remarried /divorced and hasnt found life any better! He on the other hand ,has a string of pretty young GF and has a swish flat ,holidays with GF and DC together (now has a serious GF)and she is put out to put it mildly !Try to consider all options carefully .Do you have interests of your own? Maybe dont have to spend all your free time together!

People here complaining about 50 50 are assuking the children will all pick living with their mother. OP has already said at least one of them would want to live with their dad. This also happened to someone I know, three kids chose their dad, one her.

So it is all very well advising ways to stay but there is no point if one or more of the kids want to live with him. Yes some judges may favour a mesher order but many do not now as some think it disadvantages the mother. Someone I know had one and had to pay mortgage herself but the house was split equally between them when her child turned 18. She is now struggling to get a mortgage as she is older and closer to retirement.

Equally nesting worked for a colleague until they got new partners and then it all became uncomfortable as her husband didn't want her bringing new guy to their shared flat. It destroyed whatever civility was left.

I think you need to agree to sell the house and accept you just won't have as big a place. If he has to rent you won't get above the CMS minimum or perhaps even less if a few of the kids choose to live with him. If he ever gets sick, loses his job or dies you could also be screwed if you live in a house you can't afford without maintenance

Agree nesting sounds good but definitely speak to a lawyer.

Now may be a good time to buy one or two properties OP, no stamp duty!

I'm sorry you're in this position however, I'm afraid this is the reality of divorce.

You cannot just expect to stay in a house beyond your means as a sole parent because you dont want your teenage kids to share rooms.

Isnt it likely they will want to go into uni in the next few years anyway which will create more space.

I'm afraid you're going to have to work full time and live to your means...

@MotherofTerriers

You could offer to leave his pension alone in return for the house, if staying there is important to you Remember he can offer you a higher level of child maintenance than CSA states, and then stop the payments once you have agreed and sold the house. You need good legal advice

Well the OP needs pension provision too. This is harder to achieve the older you are. Giving up rights to get a mesher order builds up all sorts of trouble for future.

But unless the husband is playing a massive double bluff he isn’t as bothered on the pension as he is on home ownership. He’s made it clear he wants equity to buy new home. What he is offering is really very acceptable and I don’t see why he won’t achieve it if this goes to court. It’s the OPs desire to stay in a 5 bed house that is unreasonable from a legal perspective. It’s probably unachievable financially.

I also can't understand how nesting would prevent people from moving on. If you had your own space for 50% of the time that is where you keep your private belongings and go on your dates and do the newly single stuff. The other 50% of the time you live with your kids and concentrate on them. Going on your dates during child-free time until both have fully moved on also prevents a nesting situation from being too tense - like if each parent bought a partner into the nesting house during their 50%.

The kids don't have to have the disruption of moving between two brand new houses 50% of the time and can keep their own rooms. Seems like a no-brainer to me.

And also on the sharing - I understand a lot of people shared from a young age so were used to it, or just simply were not fortunate enough to have their own room. But what I don't understand is the idea that kids, and in particular teenagers don't need a space of their own and privacy. For many teens having privacy is absolutely vital to their mental health. OP has already identified one of her children who this is a very big deal for. Having had your own space and then having to share with a sibling at a teen sort of age can actually be psychologically devastating and I speak from experience.

To me, the nesting solution seems like a fantastic solution, it's positive for the kids AND both parents. Plus OP has already said this:

"I suppose I just don’t want the children to suffer as a result of our decision to split up, and all I can see is them having to switch back and forth between two homes which are much to small for our big family."

So nesting is the only solution that would keep the disruption to a minimum and not be massively unfair to either parent, both of whom sound like they pull their weight.

For all those saying OP should push for more and think of herself - seems short-sighted. If she attempts to screw her husband who she says is an excellent father - how is that going to affect their currently amicable split, and what sort of effect will that have on the kids? In this sort of situation, it's wrong to have an 'every man for himself' attitude because this is about finding a compromise for the entire family.

Genuinely stunned to read the number of people who thinking 'nesting' and sharing a one bed flat together is a good idea! Still living with someone ( albeit on different days) you're divorced from is a TERRIBLE idea! How the hell would you move on??

The reason that banks don't include maintenance for mortgages is because is so unreliable - the ex can pull it at anytime, drop the amount, start playing funny buggers.

I would say this is you were a bloke who was the main carer for the kids and it was your DW who was the higher earner - go 70/30, keep the house and take over mortgage on it, get the pensions etc sorted to see what the spilt is there, and if your ex is the prince that you're suggesting he will see that this is the best for his 4 kids and that he will get the equity owed when either you're in a position to pay him or the youngest is of age and you sell up to pay him.

It’s really hard OP, all divorces are and obviously you want what Is best for your children. It sounds like your soon to be ex is on the same page too which is good.
The nesting idea is interesting, I could see how it would work for the kids, less so for you and your husband. I’d want a clean split too.
Ultimately, if that’s not an option and the figures can’t be worked out, I think you need to sell. No, it’s not great for the kids but if you go back to work ft, build up your savings and are careful with your cash, hopefully you can afford a decent home that will work for you and the kids - if you have them 50 per cent I if the time I am sure sharing will be fine.
It’s not ideal but it’s the reality of split families and I think your children will be much less damaged by this than if you are your husband were to be on bad terms.
You’re not unreasonable to not to want move but you would be unreasonable to block a sale.

Nesting? Sounds completely shit to me

To buy yourself some time and your split is amicable enough is there enough space in the family home for you and your STBXH to have separate rooms within the house, even if the children then have to share at least they are still “at home”. Gives you thinking/ planning/saving time.

Still living with someone ( albeit on different days) you're divorced from is a TERRIBLE idea! How the hell would you move on??

But you’re not living with them, that’s the whole point. You’re in the flat when they’re in the family home and vice versa. You’re never in the same space at the same time.

This thread is mn at its absolute worst. The OP has pointed out, several times, her DH is a good dad, does his fair share, wants his kids 50% off the time and is more than capable of doing the 'mum work' as some of you see it.

Yet you are all tying yourself in knots trying to explain how devious/underhand/potentially abusive he really is. Why, as the mum when both parents appear to be putting parenting effort in, is she entitled to anymore than the very involved hands on dad?

I am sorry OP but divorce presents this exact problem. YABU to expect nothing to change for you but everything to change for DH. I grew up in an affluent area in a lovely big 4 bedroom house with 2 siblings. We all had our own room. When my parents got divorced they both bought smaller houses in less desirable areas and we had to share at both houses. It bloody sucked and I hated it but that is the way it goes sadly. Unless you agree to stay together until the kids have left for uni then you need to accept the house needs to be sold.

Can you imagine if a man wrote this: I married her because I wanted kids and someone to be a good mum. Now we have 4 teens and I've gotten what I wanted but I'm really bored. So I reckon I'll try to keep the kids and the house and see if I can run her off. Oh and I'm going to do it just as the kids hit crucial years in secondary school.

This just can't be real.

'But you’re not living with them, that’s the whole point. You’re in the flat when they’re in the family home and vice versa. You’re never in the same space at the same time.'

Right. But you're sharing the same bed, and washing changing sheets all the time. Their stuff is all over your space. Do they leave cups out? Not load the dishwasher they way you would? are their things strewn about?
Or on top of very thing else do you have to keep the place immaculate all the time?
Those habits that drive you mad, you're going to still have to put up with.
What about when you get a boyfriend or girlfriend, do they come back ?
What about your private papers, docs, letters? What about your vibrator??? Do you each get a locked cupboard?
Do you want your ex in your space, touching your belongings, using your shampoo or whatever?
Where's your privacy?
Who pays for what? Are you going to share food, groceries?
And you're going to do this for how long exactly, 5,7, 10 years?

Seems childish for me, something that would only be suggested by a partner who's nt ready to let go.

'Can you imagine if a man wrote this: I married her because I wanted kids and someone to be a good mum. Now we have 4 teens and I've gotten what I wanted but I'm really bored. So I reckon I'll try to keep the kids and the house and see if I can run her off. Oh and I'm going to do it just as the kids hit crucial years in secondary school'

I can't imagine anyone writing that - and no-one did. The OP certainly didn't.

Is this a reverse then?

@titchy

At the ages your kids are, realistically you can't assume you'll have them 50:50. Maybe the 10 year old. But the others probably won't want to be moved back and forth according to their parents schedules. And not all together either. I'd imagine there'd be times when the boys wanted to do one thing and the girls another. Or one would prefer to stay put even though they're supposed to go to the other parent.

Nesting does sound like a good solution. You could both rent very cheap bedsits which would allow you to move on and date, and even have a single bed each in the main house.

I agree with this, other than 10 year old the others and going to be increasingly doing their own thing. Have you spoken to the children about where they want to stay? At their ages, perhaps not the ten year old they will have their own opinions to add to the discussion. I get that would be a very difficult situation but if your stb ex and you are amicable maybe you can talk to them together.

All the people saying sell the house when youngest is 18

My 3 adult children ,22 ,21 20
Are all living at home
Where would they of gone if I had sold the house ....they don’t just leave home at 18 ..
Where I live they can’t even afford a bed bed flat ,no council flats either

Sorry you eill just have to work full time. Why should your ex suffer due to you not doing a full time job

@BilbyBlue
WELL SAID!!!
Complete double standards by some very bitter man hating people!
OP is bored and wants out so MN are trying to get her to screw her husband over who, in OP's own words, is a great dad and has done nothing wrong.

if you are bored in your marriage OP then get councilling rather than rip your family apart over something so trivial. Unless there is some big back story here, being bored is trivial in the grand scheme of 25 year and 4 kids later! Work at it, or stay until the kids are in Uni then leave / Split. Get yourself into full time work now and look at retraining or doing something to make more money. Then when you do split in 8 years time you will be in a better paid job and able to split more cleanly rather than going after your DH for support.