Non-binary

[UnaCorda]

As an intersex person, AIBU to feel slightly put out that "non-binary" has been comandeered/appropriated (if it's fair to use those terms) by people who just want to be a bit different/special?

(Sorry, that sounds a bit snarky. I would like to understand why people feel this term is important.)

Imo, if you have XX chromosomes, a womb, ovaries, breasts, a vagina, etc., you're a woman. You may not be girly, you may not be straight, you may be unconventional in myriad ways, but do those personality traits really need a label? Or, if they do, is it necessary for that label to suggest that we aren't, essentially, a binary species?

I also don't like being tagged on to the whole LGBTQ... alphabet spaghetti, but not sure whether that is a related issue. (NB I think being transgender is a different case and I'm not referring to those who genuinely feel they're in the wrong body.)

I am willing to be persuaded that IABU, but would like to hear people's opinions.

@9PointsOnMyLicence - because girls and women are finding themselves being put in positions of danger and discomfort because men who identify as women can invade their safe spaces.

The need for safe spaces is the real battle. I see too many semantic debates along the lines of "You're trans, not intersex or non-binary" or "you're non-binary, not trans or intersex". These are battles of words.

I've read a few articles lately from intersex people who feel that their identity is being used to justify the trans rhetoric. As you are an intersex person, I think that you have more authority to comment on this subject than me, who obviously is not. You have a very unique lived experience that most people have not experienced. I also think that most people probably do not understand what intersex is.

Personally I believe that there are generally two sexes - Male and Female (intersex does however sit outside that), and that people are either Straight, Gay or Bisexual. The whole alphabet soup thing is now just a joke.

Intersex is a disorder or difference of sexual development. It doesn't sit outside 2 sexes. Intersex people are still male or female. There are only 2 sexes.

I've read a few articles lately from intersex people who feel that their identity is being used to justify the trans rhetoric.

Me too. It's a weird leap of logic. How can one stress the importance of not conflating sex and gender, and then attempt to make one's case for gender fluidity by pointing at intersex people?

@NessRose88

I've read a few articles lately from intersex people who feel that their identity is being used to justify the trans rhetoric. As you are an intersex person, I think that you have more authority to comment on this subject than me, who obviously is not. You have a very unique lived experience that most people have not experienced. I also think that most people probably do not understand what intersex is.

Personally I believe that there are generally two sexes - Male and Female (intersex does however sit outside that), and that people are either Straight, Gay or Bisexual. The whole alphabet soup thing is now just a joke.

Can you post some links to these articles please?

I've been trying to find some from credible sources but haven't had much luck.

When I searched just now in Google News it was an article where intersex and trans people in NZ were experiencing similar difficulties on legal changes to birth certificates and working together to advocate on this (and to make non-binary an option apparently)

www.scoop.co.nz/stories/PO2006/S00291/trans-and-intersex-communities-call-for-law-change-and-release-of-working-groups-report.htm

There's so many things I can't get my head around in this world but I just canny give a flying f@@k how other people want to refer to themselves to or behave (except in instances where it hurts others). I'm too busy loving my own life to care

Wow sorry about the typos haha

If I’m forced to identify as a gender I think I’m non binary. I’m quite clearly a woman though.

I think the answer to this non-binary crap is a load of middle aged women to ‘come out’.

YANBU, OP.

I know one female who has done this. She's in her early thirties. From what I can tell, going NB involved getting her hair cut short for the first time in her life and wearing jeans most days. That's it. She hired a photographer and did a big 'coming out' photo spread and made announcements across social media. Cue 'stunning and brave' comments.

Apparently, this now makes her the final authority on any and all LGBT issues. Also, because she 'used to be a woman' she is allowed to give away women's sex-based rights in favour of advancing the rights of NBs and Trans people. She has moral superiority somehow.

The whole experience has been one of the most narcissistic things I've ever witnessed.

Logically, if we want a society where gender stereotypes are eradicated, then non-binary makes complete sense. However, that ‘fight’ will only be over when non-binary is not a necessary descriptor and you can be she or he without that coming with millennia or stereotypes.

I think Jonathan from Queer Eye is the perfect example of this, rejecting notions of gender to just be himself, fabulously. And I think there is something really important about the fact that he retains he/him/his as pronouns.

However, to conflate non-binary and intersex is uncomfortable. One is social; the other is biological. I was, naively, unaware that this happened.

Logically, if we want a society where gender stereotypes are eradicated, then non-binary makes complete sense. However, that ‘fight’ will only be over when non-binary is not a necessary descriptor and you can be she or he without that coming with millennia or stereotypes.

Yes - logically everyone is to some extent 'nonbinary' with regard to 'gender'. People who insist on this label are essentially saying they're outside the constraining boxes but that those boxes are fine for everyone else.