To be absolutely at my wits end with potty training

[YukoandHiro]

Started 5.5 months ago. Dd is going to be 3 in a couple of weeks. We seem to make progress and then go three steps back. Before lockdown (March) she was maybe only having one accident a day, though we hadn't cracked poos. Then a huge regression when she stopped going to nursery.
We've had weeks where she's totally dry in the day, then periods where we're having daily accidents. Today we've had SIX wetting episodes.
She understands what to do, but just can't seem to remember. As I said, we have weeks where every wee is in the toilet, and then setbacks. But poos have always been an issue. We've maybe had four or five completed entirely on potty or toilet in all that time. The rest start in knickers and end up being completed on the toilet - if she mentions it or one of us spots it.
She still wears night nappies. Sometimes she holds a poo for a day or so and then it comes out when she's relaxed in her sleep in the nappy. We end up having to wake to change her before we go to bed.
I've run out of ideas. We've done star charts, chocolate buttons for potty poos, great bit celebrations for every success, and tried dialling it down and just Leaving her to get on with it. Nothing seems to make a difference.
We haven't gone back into nappies at any point and I really don't want to do that now, especially when we've had periods do up to 10 days in a row with no accidents.
Has anyone got any advice?
Three relevant things: 1) yes, I probably started a bit early but I think she's more than ready now if she was focused on it. But she really doesn't seem to care about getting wet and being changed constantly.
2) she's not independent in dressing yet and still struggles with pulling her down knickers/trousers up and down
3) she's likely to be out of nursery for ages as I'm high risk for covid and pregnant - so midwife advises no childcare due to risk. So there's no peer pressure from other successful toddlers in terms of copying.
She's very young in her school year and next September will be expected to be so far on with all this. Can't imagine it!
Please help! Exhausted with it tbh (especially being in my third trimester).

stop - put her back in pull ups - let her decide when she's ready

did it with my 3 - once they decided they wanted pants we had no accidents

Already tried that - she loves her "big girl knickers" and refuses pull ups in the day now.
Sigh. I know she'll get there. I'm just shattered.

sound like hard work - hope someone can offer better advice! poor you x

@ghostyslovesheets

stop - put her back in pull ups - let her decide when she's ready

did it with my 3 - once they decided they wanted pants we had no accidents

I have to agree with this. She may be sensing how stressed you are about it. Give both of you a break and leave it until she's really ready.

The only other thing I'd suggest is cloth training pant's that can hold a wee but enable the child to make the connection with feeling wet. I had no problems training my younger, cloth nappied children but my older child, who was in disposables, took much longer to make this connection because the disposables were so effective at wicking moisture.

Eric is a hugely helpful charity. What helped us was going right back to basics - take your child to the toilet every 2hrs or so, or more frequently depending on their bladder / what they've had to drink. I set an alarm on my phone to remind me. Verbal praise best at this age - make a huge fuss immediately as they wee / poo. Star charts etc mean nothing when they're so young. Don't make a fuss about accidents at all. I hope she gets there soon.

She’s not ready. It’s that simple.

Tell her she can’t wear ‘big girl’ knickers for a little while and just get on with it.

You’ve been trying for nearly 6 months - you need a break.

Gather all the patience you can. Breathe. It can be a long, slow process.

I’d say it was 2 full years (perhaps more) before DS1 was properly trained. We started a bit short of 3. We had two house moves in that period and he regressed each time. For some kids, it’s an emotional process and it’s the first thing to go when they’re unsettled.

With DS1, rewards etc made it worse not better.

What id advise is try to go with the flow. Invest in lots of changes (clothes and bed). We started putting him on the loo before we went to bed, he was half asleep. That helped.

She’ll get there eventually.

Do you wait for her to tell you or do you 'make' her go?

Mine potty trained fairly easily (they were hideous, hideous sleepers it wasn't all roses by any stretch of the imagination!) because I didn't really ever let them get desperate for a wee. I just kind of kept them empty by making them go at very regular intervals and slowly stretching them out. I think at the start you have to kind of manage their bladder for them and they do as you tell them to and then slowly switch over control to them. You might already do this though!

I think at this stage it's best to take them often to the potty / toilet. It will hopefully prevent most accidents and just gets them into the habit of going. As for your child actually having an understanding of when they need to go this will come only when they're ready. By scheduling a toilet time you're helping them to become more independent - it's like walking - first you hold their hands and help them walk, then one day they'll do it by themselves. And right now it sounds like your daughter just isn't ready to do it by herself. And that's fine. For now I think that's the best you can do

We had this with both ours. We started too early for them (2). Rather than make an issue of it we just went back to pull ups, and tried again, I think one was 3 and the other 3 and a half by the time they were completely in dry pants. We used a chocolate button for a wee and two for a poo, and a laminated reward chart with a photo of their prize (one was a Playmobil police car and the other was a bouncing light up ball). Every dry day was a sticker, and at the end they got their prize.

@TokyoSushi

Do you wait for her to tell you or do you 'make' her go?

Mine potty trained fairly easily (they were hideous, hideous sleepers it wasn't all roses by any stretch of the imagination!) because I didn't really ever let them get desperate for a wee. I just kind of kept them empty by making them go at very regular intervals and slowly stretching them out. I think at the start you have to kind of manage their bladder for them and they do as you tell them to and then slowly switch over control to them. You might already do this though!

Yes totally this. My first was a nightmare to train because he just didn't 'get it' for years. My second was a dream but that's probably because we just take him at regular intervals

I don't think 3 is too early. We trained ds1 at age 3 and he was a bloody nightmare. DS2 was age 2 and was amazing. A few decades ago everyone was potty trained way earlier using a routine type method

Oh yes, as Stopfunding says, we took them to the toilet often, I think either every half hour or every hour, I can't remember (7 years ago now!) so the decision to go or to wait wasn't up to them goal is to make a wetting incident rare so they don't like it and eventually take themselves to avoid it.

Thanks @tokyosushi - we do take her regularly but backed off that recently when she started coming to us to let us know. There was a period of about a fortnight not that long ago (maybe 3 weeks ago?) where she barely had an accident with wee and didn't need any prompting. We thought we were over the mountain! But since then we've slid back so we are taking her. Today we were distracted with lots of pre baby prep (moving furniture etc) so maybe that's why we had so many accidents

I found the opposite to TokyoSushi, I stopped prompting and a couple of days later it clicked. I think I was prompting her too much so she didn't learn the feeling which meant that if I didn't guess correctly she ended up having accidents.

Stress won't be helping and a break from it could do you both good.

I second the suggestion to speak to the ERIC help line.
Witholding poo plays havoc with bladder sensation and control. If she is doing that, she will keep wetting.
I wonder if she has had a painful experience with a hard poo and is now frightened? That can be a reason they hold onto it.
ERIC is very good.

Put her in a dress/long top with no pants at home. Means she's not struggling with getting them down and not making the loo in time.

Set an alarm for once an hour (or whatever you feel is manageable) and she has to go to the loo them.

I know boys are a bit different but my nephew was almost four before it clicked for him.

I second the padded knickers, they feel yucky when wet so are a good disincentive. Otherwise just put her back in pull ups. If she likes knickers, she needs to earn them.

“Knickers dont like being wet, so they are going back in your drawer. When you havent got your pull up wet all day, you can try your knickers the next morning. If you then keep them dry you can have them again the next morning.”

But all with no pressure or emotionally loaded language, just very matter of fact.

And then dress her in clothes she can manage herself.

I've never done stickers or charts for potty training, I know some children respond to them but mine never did and at what point do you draw the line of there being no more rewards for going to the loo?

If she doesn't want to go back into nappies or pull-ups then like a PP said, schedule in regular toilet time. Activity changes are a good time to try for a wee and around 30 minutes after meals to try for a poo if she's withholding. With my DC I used to phrase it around whatever we were doing like "we're going to go to the park, let's go try a park-wee before we leave" or "we can get the colour out but let's try a crayons-wee first". I used to give lots of praise just for trying even if they didn't actually do anything.

The ERIC website has loads of good advice too, also mentioned by a PP.

Thanks @questionablemouse Unfortunately this is not an option for us as she suffers from eczema and bare legs cause flare ups/constant scratching. If she's wearing dresses in summer she tends to have Capri leggings on to keep the back of her knees covered over her moisturiser.

Also make sure she is drinking plenty so her bladder gets full. If you think the withholding is paining her then speak to your GP as she may need to use Movicol or Laxido to help her go, they're not laxatives and they don't cause any long term harm, they just help to keep things moving to lessen the withholding.

Some good advice thanks - will check out the ERIC site.
She's never been constipated and doesn't have any issues with solid poo. Sometimes she will just do a dance to avoid doing it until the critical moment. She went through a phase of that, but now seems to be just letting go in her knickers again.

Who knows!

I was sanguine for a long time but just suddenly a feel a bit exasperated today. I know it's becuse there's so much to do before the baby arrives etc. I don't want to put unnecessary pressure on her, but am also worried about the school timeline. She'll be 4 and three weeks when she starts next year, so can't just trust she'll be fine by 5 as if she was month younger.

All her peers in Nct etc have been done for months. I do feel like I've done something wrong somewhere, but we've never criticised accidents and always just kept on keeping on as the books say (and her nursery staff also advised)

Ah okay. That makes things a bit more tricky. Honestly she will get there 😊

You might find she prefers a potty seat for the loo rather than using an actual potty.

Hi OP,

I don't think your child is too early at all, we're just finishing potty training DD who will be 3 in October and her peers at nursery were potty trained earlier than her.

I followed the OCPT method closely and it worked. We had similar poo problems to you but 2 months in and they've just about settled and now regularly on the toilet.

If I were you, I would do a reset (back in nappies for 2 weeks) then follow OCPT very closely and see how you go. Word of warning- the author is very vocally against 'late' potty training (and she would class 3 as late) and even reading it when dd was 2.5 I was worried I had left it too late. But as I say- it did work for us- so may work for you.

I third the padded knickers. I used a towelling (sp?) pair for one of my DDs who just wasn’t getting it. Feeling the wetness helped her.

I don’t think you started too early, BTW. 2 is a normal age to start. Some children just take longer than others to be completely trained. I’d also agree that any poo withholding might be contributing.

I suggest the aforementioned knickers, regular potty times with chats about what she’s doing and feeling. Some children need kind of verbal guidance to identify things while others don’t. Keep calm and don’t react to accidents or be disheartened.

Also, watch her drinks. I found mine wasn’t drinking enough then had strong wee that ‘hurt’ more and made her pee suddenly. Again, a routine helps. I also talked about what I was doing (sorry for TMI) so my children began to understand thinking and reacting to toilet cues.