To be absolutely at my wits end with potty training

[YukoandHiro]

Started 5.5 months ago. Dd is going to be 3 in a couple of weeks. We seem to make progress and then go three steps back. Before lockdown (March) she was maybe only having one accident a day, though we hadn't cracked poos. Then a huge regression when she stopped going to nursery.
We've had weeks where she's totally dry in the day, then periods where we're having daily accidents. Today we've had SIX wetting episodes.
She understands what to do, but just can't seem to remember. As I said, we have weeks where every wee is in the toilet, and then setbacks. But poos have always been an issue. We've maybe had four or five completed entirely on potty or toilet in all that time. The rest start in knickers and end up being completed on the toilet - if she mentions it or one of us spots it.
She still wears night nappies. Sometimes she holds a poo for a day or so and then it comes out when she's relaxed in her sleep in the nappy. We end up having to wake to change her before we go to bed.
I've run out of ideas. We've done star charts, chocolate buttons for potty poos, great bit celebrations for every success, and tried dialling it down and just Leaving her to get on with it. Nothing seems to make a difference.
We haven't gone back into nappies at any point and I really don't want to do that now, especially when we've had periods do up to 10 days in a row with no accidents.
Has anyone got any advice?
Three relevant things: 1) yes, I probably started a bit early but I think she's more than ready now if she was focused on it. But she really doesn't seem to care about getting wet and being changed constantly.
2) she's not independent in dressing yet and still struggles with pulling her down knickers/trousers up and down
3) she's likely to be out of nursery for ages as I'm high risk for covid and pregnant - so midwife advises no childcare due to risk. So there's no peer pressure from other successful toddlers in terms of copying.
She's very young in her school year and next September will be expected to be so far on with all this. Can't imagine it!
Please help! Exhausted with it tbh (especially being in my third trimester).

Also what is she drinking? Anything other than milk and water can irritate the bladder and cause wetting

Thanks @ellieelephant1 - we did a version of on crap at the beginning but unfortunately we can't do it to the letter because bare skin causes her eczema to flare terribly. If she's scratching she can't concentrate on anything at all - let alone other bodily sensations. So we've had to adapt a bit.

But I agree she's not too young. Her peers (especially other girls) are all done, and none had these issues. She also very clearly knows what's expected of her.

The only difference is she's always been slightly behind the norm on gross motor (crawling, walking, jumping only came about 2 months ago) so maybe it's to do what that as this is a gross motor skill. What makes it harder is her language etc is advanced, so she seems so mature in so many ways except this.

I guess I just feel like I'm running out of ideas. Will try speaking to ERIC charity.

When is the baby due? When did nappy training start? Around the same time baby talk started by any chance? What happens when she is doing her little need a poo dance? Do you encourage her to go or wait until she asks? I always reminded mine to go every hour or so.

Do yourself a favour and wait. She is clearly not ready. Especially not if she cannot dress herself. Even if you crack it now she will likely regress again when the baby arrives.

I found when my youngest was born it really helped with my eldest because he didn't want to be a baby anymore, we really laid it on thick with being the 'big boy'. It helped with potty training and getting rid of his dummy.

Took my DS over a year to get it... til he was about 3.5. Lockdown helped as we were home more so easier to get to the loo! Sometimes now if he’s watching a programme he loves he will wee himself as he doesn’t want to miss the TV 🙄

Okay, I’m a mother of two girls, both potty trained by around 2.5 years, but different experiences for each. I’m also a nursery teacher with loads of experience of children who are potty training.

I don’t think you started her too early, by the way. I’ve worked with children who are still in nappies when they’re due to start school and I can’t work out what that’s all about. I think you maybe have to accept that it’s not going to be an instant process and be positive about the successes.

With my older DD (now 14) she was pretty straightforward, around 26/27 months and got the whole thing pretty quickly. My younger DD (now 10) was started around the same age but took longer to get the hang of it, in the way you describe, good and bad days etc... interestingly, DD1 is and always has been more independent, so I wonder if that’s part of it.

My feeling is that it’s best just to push on with it, I don’t agree that children just decide when to do it, although of course they do need to be aware of needing to go and understand what to do. They won’t get it right 100% of the time, but it will come. Re the poo thing. That’s so common (from experience of nursery teaching) and seems to generally resolve itself over time. I didn’t experience this with my own children, so can’t comment too much.

It sounds to me that you DD is doing okay!

Actually we started before we knew I was pregnant (frankly I would have put it off if I had known - I had hypermesis til 17 weeks and every poo accident was impossible to clear up without a bucket next to me. Not ideal for the poor girl).

We didn't mention the baby til after 12 week scan, so we'd maybe been going 2 months by then.

I have wondered if all this baby stuff is making her want to stop growing up. We'll see what happens when the baby arrives. I'm not due til early October. I was hoping we'd be done by then... but now I'm not so sure!

@YukoandHiro ah yes, that wouldn't work with OCPT, sounds really frustrating.

Perhaps it's just one of those things she will take longer with- I know it's the most annoying phrase (especially when there's one aspect of development you're worried about) but they really are all different!

My dd was (still is!) a very slow talker, so I 100% understand the frustration and feeling when it seems all their peers are so easily picking up the next skill and yours isn't.

I don't have any further advice as OCPT is all I know but best of luck going forward- she will get this!!

Sounds like you're trying too early.

3 isn't some magic "ready for potty training" age.

My DD was closer to 3.5. But got it in a day and never had an accident. And was dry overnight.

No stress involved.

Ofgs
Poor child is obviously not ready .
Try again in 6 months

We had the same issue with poos. I was on the lockdown potty training thread and was at my wits end. Taking daughter to the toilet about 50 times a day. What really worked for us was putting nappy pants on when she needed a poo. So if she was holding or doing poo dance. It meant that it took allllll the pressure off any poo accidents as there was no mess. She was also very reluctant at first but I jut explained that I didn’t want accidents in her knickers but pull ups or toilet were fine. It’s worked really well. That and with wees we had to go back to saying ‘I’ll do this (lunch, play, tv anything) once we’ve been for a wee. She resisted that but I just said no, we can’t play until you’ve been for a wee. Pull ups didn’t seem to make her regress with wee and we just kept them on as short an amount of time as possible. And....after three months, she’s finally started pooing on the toilet. Well, she’s done it for the last three days. We never did oh crap method. It wasn’t for me for various reasons. Also, the whole big girl thing that people say, I don’t think it’s helpful. As sometimes kids want to be a baby again.

We had a book called 'I want my potty' (you can get it on Ebay) Dd loved it and I think it really helped.

Just want to flag you have every right to start her at school when she is 5 into reception. They would be required to prove it is in her best interests to skip reception (basically impossible) so you don't have to send her at 4 and 3 weeks especially if you feel she would struggle.

Have you asked at nursery, how she was doing with training there (before lockdown) ?

I really feel for you, I went through something similar with DS. Started training at 2.5 and it's taken just over a year to get reliably dry in the day (night time is another story...)

In the end, what worked is going totally back to basics. We created our own 'tick chart' with a choice of treat cards that he picked himself daily. We tried to use things he had a special interest in e.g. Lego, certain TV shows, favourite story at bed time etc and added new ones if he suddenly developed a new interest). He had 5 boxes to fill with ticks to get the treat (card was stuck to the chart to give him something to aim at!) and the ticks were only given for a wee or poo, when he was totally dry and clean after).

On the advice of the health visitor we also had a rule that if there was an accident, he had to come away from whatever activity he was doing and help clean up, putting clothes in the washer, and helping to wash himself down and get changed. He found this process pretty boring and learnt that taking himself for a wee meant less disruption to play time.

It did feel like we'd never get there, but one day it suddenly clicked. I think he just wasn't ready, and is quite stubborn so it became a battle of wills. We had to be really really consistent with the system and it took about 3 weeks before we noticed signs of improvement.

I

she isnt ready op. We started talking about it and familiarizing ds from about age 3 but only tried it at 3.5.
He trained fully withing a month.
Schools here usual potty train and we follow through their approach at home.
They also discourage reward charts because at some point you need to stop.
I think give it a break for a few months. Take away the pressure. Slowly talk about the potty. And let her give you the lead.

Reading with interest because I'm struggling with my son pooing in his pants all the time. He's just turned 3 and we started mid April.

I admit I told him off today and I feel like an absolute SHITE mother for it. I'd put him on the potty as he was a bit quiet which is a tell tale. He sat on it with a toy for a while but nothing happened. Left the potty right there to try again in a short while and in minutes he'd done it in his pants.

Other times he'll just sit himself down without any intervention and do it perfectly. We heap the praise. Other times it just feels like he can't be arsed and it really pressed my buttons today .

Reading with interest because I'm struggling with my son pooing in his pants all the time. He's just turned 3 and we started mid April.

I admit I told him off today and I feel like an absolute SHITE mother for it. I'd put him on the potty as he was a bit quiet which is a tell tale. He sat on it with a toy for a while but nothing happened. Left the potty right there to try again in a short while and in minutes he'd done it in his pants.

Other times he'll just sit himself down without any intervention and do it perfectly. We heap the praise. Other times it just feels like he can't be arsed and it really pressed my buttons today .

OP I really feel for you. I have recently had the same issues with my 3 year old. Totally inconsistent, some days did ok and then would have days of several accidents - she didn’t even seem to care although she hated the thought of nappies again and loved big girl pants. After a few weeks it was too frustrating so we stopped.
We started again about 6 weeks ago / 2 months and it’s made a huge difference. Just seemed to click. Still the odd accident but never a poo and never out of the house.
I just think she wasn’t ready before, simple as that. I think people who have success sooner just have kids who were ready at the time,
I also have a six month old so understand your anxiety but really- my advice is to get her back into the pull ups and wait a few weeks before starting again. Yes ask her if she needs to go regularly / take her into the bathroom with you etc. But don’t keep up the full on pressure as you could end up causing her to have a complex and inadvertently cause her longer term anxiety about it

I feel for you. It is very frustrating. My son is almost 5 and still has regular poo accidents. We ended up delaying his school start because he was struggling so much (the school agreed he could be educated out of his chronological age group so will start in Reception in September ) so luckily he has had another year at nursery. All the changes in routine due to lockdown have not helped as he regresses with any change. He is dry at night though!

My daughter who is 7.5 also has continence issues though different ones so I think sometimes you can just be unlucky!

I look forward to the day I no longer have to bring changes of clothes on outings!

I agree that if it is stressing you out I would leave it for a bit. You have another year or possibly two before school so plenty of time to sort it.

Thanks all - will read through everyone's comments this evening.

Re: school - I don't want to hold her back a year as intellectually and emotionally I think she'll be more than ready, I just wonder if she'll be a bit physically behind her peers

I don’t have any specific advice on your situation as we had a weird, long old road to toilet training - my DD had functional constipation which took ages to sort out and lots of chats with the aforementioned ERIC who were great. So I’ve not done “normal” training so don’t feel in a place to advise.

But to give you hope we were incredibly worried about what stage our DD would be at when starting school - she’s a late August baby. But it all came together a few months ago when she was 3 and 3/4 so you still have time!

My two had JUST about mastered it by the time they turned 3. But only just barely. Neither were rock-solid reliable.

If I were you, I'd go to taking her to the toilet every hour or so, and then gradually stretching out the time.

If negotiating the clothes is hard for her, now is a perfect time of year to live in just knickers and dresses/skirts. Much easier to manage than struggling with trousers or leggings.
There's a reason so many parents try and do their potty training in the summer months, as you can get away with fewer layers of clothes and even just bums in underwear while you're at home!

I really don’t think you started her too early - I potty trained my son at 18 months. He’s now 27 months. We used Oh Crap - well worth a read.

When I say potty trained, he was able to tell us when he needed to go and could hold it, and then release when he was on the potty, so he hasn’t worn nappies since 18 months. But even now he struggles to manage his own clothes so we still help him pull his trousers up and down. I wonder if you could break it down so first of all focus on her going when you tell her (so she doesn’t have to initiate), then work towards her initiating, then work on her managing her own clothes?

Don't rush things, she will get there in her own time. Comparing her to her friends won't help you, and don't forget a new baby will also delay things. Follow her lead and don't put pressure on. It took DD 6 months to get there (from just before 3 until 3.5 to be happy pooing in the toilet/potty and knickers for bed) which I was more than happy with.

You have over a year for her to be potty trained before school. The difference that makes to maturity is huge!

I personally would wait until she can manage pulling trousers up and down to make you life easier. You mention she has been a but slower with gross motor skills - give her time.

My little girl is just turned 3yo and will start school next September. She seems way too babyish now, but so much changes in a year. The potty training pants are a good in between if she won't do pull ups. Good luck to you!