To be absolutely at my wits end with potty training

[YukoandHiro]

Started 5.5 months ago. Dd is going to be 3 in a couple of weeks. We seem to make progress and then go three steps back. Before lockdown (March) she was maybe only having one accident a day, though we hadn't cracked poos. Then a huge regression when she stopped going to nursery.
We've had weeks where she's totally dry in the day, then periods where we're having daily accidents. Today we've had SIX wetting episodes.
She understands what to do, but just can't seem to remember. As I said, we have weeks where every wee is in the toilet, and then setbacks. But poos have always been an issue. We've maybe had four or five completed entirely on potty or toilet in all that time. The rest start in knickers and end up being completed on the toilet - if she mentions it or one of us spots it.
She still wears night nappies. Sometimes she holds a poo for a day or so and then it comes out when she's relaxed in her sleep in the nappy. We end up having to wake to change her before we go to bed.
I've run out of ideas. We've done star charts, chocolate buttons for potty poos, great bit celebrations for every success, and tried dialling it down and just Leaving her to get on with it. Nothing seems to make a difference.
We haven't gone back into nappies at any point and I really don't want to do that now, especially when we've had periods do up to 10 days in a row with no accidents.
Has anyone got any advice?
Three relevant things: 1) yes, I probably started a bit early but I think she's more than ready now if she was focused on it. But she really doesn't seem to care about getting wet and being changed constantly.
2) she's not independent in dressing yet and still struggles with pulling her down knickers/trousers up and down
3) she's likely to be out of nursery for ages as I'm high risk for covid and pregnant - so midwife advises no childcare due to risk. So there's no peer pressure from other successful toddlers in terms of copying.
She's very young in her school year and next September will be expected to be so far on with all this. Can't imagine it!
Please help! Exhausted with it tbh (especially being in my third trimester).

My Nan always said never put them in nappies at night if you want to potty train successfully. There will be accidents at night but only for a very short period and that's when they get used to it during the day and go with the flow.

Night time dryness is hormonal and cannot be trained so I wouldn't forgo nappies at night just yet unless you enjoy changing wet bedding...

All children are different in terms of age. I had one DC trained at almost 3, one trained at 2, one at 3, and one at almost 4. The one who was almost 4 was the most difficult and the most resistant. They were ready for it and they could do it, they just didn't want to. We initially had tried at age 3 and ended up going back to nappies due to the amount of accidents then at age almost-4 when we tried again there was a day or two of resistance before it clicked into place really quickly and they were reliably potty trained within a week.

She will get it sooner or later and she will be able to reliably use the toilet or potty.

I'd put her back into nappies for now and wait until she is ready, after your bsby is born. It's not uncommon for older children to regress after the birth of a sibling and this can include toiletting. A friend toilet-trained her oldest a month before giving birth to her second. He was fine for a few weeks then had daily accidents. It was months before he was dry again, and in hindsight she really wishes she'd waited.

Thanks everyone. A lot of you are saying stop for now - which I get, as it's stressful for me. But she's not at all stressed about it. She honestly doesn't care when it happens, just lets us know and says she didn't make it in time.
Won't putting her back in pull ups during the day be totally confusing for her and delay things even further, considering she's been in knickers since mid February?

I wouldn't stop. I was told to stop as had similar problems, really wish I hadn't as it turns out that ds just found potty training really hard no matter when we did it. He's 6 now and only just becoming more independent

I would call Eric
And start a routine as you know that worked in the past - take her every X hours

I think for a lot of children potty trained doesn't actually = my child can independently know when to use the toilet and takes themselves. But actually potty trained = my child doesn't have many accidents as I take them on a regular schedule with the aim of building independence

With my older son we didn’t stop Trying, we carried on all the time at home but when we went out he wore a nappy- I would consider this for your dd, especially at the moment I would prefer to avoid public toilets any way if possible!

@YukoandHiro

Thanks everyone. A lot of you are saying stop for now - which I get, as it's stressful for me. But she's not at all stressed about it. She honestly doesn't care when it happens, just lets us know and says she didn't make it in time. Won't putting her back in pull ups during the day be totally confusing for her and delay things even further, considering she's been in knickers since mid February?

I think the advice to stop and put pull ups on is the worst, shitest advice.

Get the Oh Crap book and follow that. It's brilliant

My advice about pulls ups was mainly just to take the stress off for you. That’s why I did it. Because I was fed up of thinking about poo and spending my time being on edge about poo. She didn’t seem to find it confusing and I kept them on for the shortest amount of time possible in the day. It might not be something you want to do, which is fair enough. But more just that it’s an option if you feel you need a break from cleaning up poo. I personally don’t like the idea that once you take away nappies then you can never go back for a bit. You could explain that you’ve noticed she needs a poo so you’re going to put a pull up on in case she has an accident. And then still encourage her to go to the loo in time.

@fadedout OP can’t do oh crap method. Read the thread.

Do you really think you started too early? Honestly that's not a dig I just thought advice was from two which is why I've started so I wounding say you started too soon, just every kid is different. Hang in there

I also think call ErIc. You might not be able to tell there is constipation. She def sounds like she's withholding and that can cause pressure on the bladder. Might explain why she can manage for weeks then not at others.

Hi @thickfast oh sorry that wasn't directed at you - we have done that sometimes, using a nappy when we know she needs to go and is holding, and that has worked well so we'll keep trying that too. But I'm not convinced that dropping the whole thing and going back to nappies for a month and then restarting is the right thing to do, especially when there's a lot of other change at home on the horizon with a baby (and her routine has been very upset by lockdown anyway)

Interesting the comments about outside - she's only ever had an accident outside twice I think. We take a Potette everywhere but don't often have to use it.

Oh it’s fine! My post probably came across as a bit snippy but it wasn’t meant to be like that. Not sure stopping completely would work. I was also reluctant to do that even though my husband wanted to. Coz she was pretty good with wees. You could do a bit of a gamble and put her in a nappy for two days and hope she hates it!! Have you tries asking her what makes her go in her knickers? Have you watched Pooland? I’m sure you’ve tried it all. I had the same. In the end I had to get into the ‘I don’t care frame of mind’ you literally cannot make someone poo. It’s totally out of my control. Apart from facilitating it, there’s nothing I can do about it. So I took a leaf out of the fussy eating book and tried the whole ‘don’t encourage, don’t praise, don’t even mention it’. Didn’t manage it that well though but I did try.

DC3 has turned out to be the latest to potty train and I was starting to panic. I started her when she was about 2.5 and it was an unmitigated disaster. Left it then until 3 and it was worse because not only was she not getting it and showing no interest whatsoever, but I had visions of her NEVER getting it and possibly going to university in nappies

Tried again about 2 weeks ago and bingo! Loving her big girl pants. Only one or two accidents in the last fortnight. Now uses the toilet as much as the potty so we're off out this morning to buy her a seat and step.

The point is, she wasn't ready even when I was. When they're ready it's like flicking a light switch. In my panic I forgot that it had been exactly the same with my other two kids.

I know you're loathe to do it, but wait a while. It really sounds like she's not ready because it shouldn't be this hard on you. When she's ready it'll work without tormenting you. (Don't worry - she'll find other ways to torment you. I've asked to open and close a Frozen umbrella about 6 billion times this morning )

It doesn't sound like she's ready to be honest. With both of mine I just left a potty in the living room for a few weeks (it was there around 6/8 weeks before it was used) and told them what it was with no pressure to use it. Sometimes they would sit on it in their clothes, sit on it after a bath or stand on it etc but they got used to it in a positive way without actually using it. I'd drop into conversations about how 'soon you'll have to use the big boy toilet too' so they knew it was coming but there was never any stress or fuss. I didn't ever want to make a big deal out of it by making them sit on the potty for a while until they had done something or carrying them to the toilet at lightning speed if they showed signs of needing to go. It was just there, they knew it was coming but it wasn't focused on or made an issue, it was all just very relaxed.

When I felt they were ready, I explained they now needed to use the potty/toilet with a potty seat on and gave them pants with their favourite characters on (like Peppa Pig and Chase) who 'didn't want to get wet'. They were literally both dry from that moment on and we've never had an accident night or day.

To elaborate on knowing when they were ready. I felt they were ready when they were more comfortable around the potty/toilet. Occasionally they'd sit on it naked after the bath to practice and we would mention doing a wee. For a few weeks they'd jump up or look a bit panicked but they did it and about three days after the first wee on the potty they got their 'special pants' (pants from tesco with characters on) and that was it.

Have you tried knickers with her favourite characters on? I pretended to talk to the characters "Peppa said she doesn't want to get wet, you'll have to be brave and use the big boy toilet". If she keeps leaving it too late to go I'd remind her every 20 minutes or so for a few days and then just slowly extend the time over a few weeks.

It’s a really hard one OP and obviously you know your little one best. Loads of advice above and so many people have different experiences as obviously every child is different. I don’t think you have been given shit advice as everyone has their own methods!
If you’re really reluctant to try pull ups again, there are loads of programmes mentioned above and I have also heard oh crap is good. I can understand why you’re so reluctant given she’s been in knickers since February!
I think it is important to remember that doesn’t equal ready. As above, some children aren’t ready until 3 and a half so it really is possible she just isn’t there yet and if she’s not I think you’re still in for a difficult time of it. I definitely feel that about my little girl and from what you said about your dd not being bothered about accidents - that suggests to me she isn’t but it could be she is just testing you. It is a hard time for little ones at the moment so she may be fine once back into her normal routine.
Good luck!