Conspiracy theories and religion

[UnaCorda]

(Inspired by, but not about, another thread.)

I realise this is a bit sacrilegious, but AIBU to suggest that you could draw parallels between religion and conspiracy theories, and also between the psychology of (some of) those who believe in either or both of them?

YANBU, One of my oldest friends has a grown-up son who totally swallowed the kool-aid that is David Icke. He believes everything he says and my friend is understandably beyond worried about him.
She, on the other hand regularly pays to see mediums, clairvoyants and swears by astrology. I think there may be a link.

I don’t think you’re wrong and i would take what you’re saying a step further and say all information we are given as a whole through media, through governments. I don’t think it’s limited to religion or conspiracy. I believe most people have a Stockholm syndrome with governments/religion. They believe that they are being helped but nothing has really changed for the benefit, irrespective of political party and allegiance the same results occur, the same political issues and conversations have been had for decades. The issues within religion are spoken topically but nothing changes.

I feel how are we to know what is the truth? We are manipulated by the media, manipulated by religion and through conspiracy. But if there is truth in conspiracy theories then they aren’t a conspiracy after all.

I do believe everything is to play on the psyche and organisations know what to do, to get what they want people to do.

The truth doesn’t have an agenda but everybody trying to convince people of the truth do even when discrepancies are very much clear.

I think people subscribe to these philosophies in order to feel safe and/or special. Conversely, I feel compelled to run far away from anyone who buys in to conspiracy theories (slightly less so with religion, but still a bit).

Interestingly (to me, at least!) there is a complete schism in my immediate family: we are either staunch atheists or fully paid-up Christians.

I'm not sure OP, the most tinfoil hatted conspiracy theorists I've ever met have been staunch atheists.

My religion (Judaism) has so many conspiracies about it. It's actually horrible. So no, mine isn't like a conspiracy theory. It's the victim of them.

@DioneTheDiabolist

I'm not sure OP, the most tinfoil hatted conspiracy theorists I've ever met have been staunch atheists.

Interesting. Although that doesn't necessarily mean there isn't something similar about them both that draws people who are predisposed to believe in something less than rational (and of course you don't have to be "mad" to be religious, but you do have to have to suspend disbelief to a certain extent).

After all, two addicts can be addicted to different substances, but they're both still addicts.

@GoshHashana

My religion (Judaism) has so many conspiracies about it. It's actually horrible. So no, mine isn't like a conspiracy theory. It's the victim of them.

Also very interesting. I'm quite interested in orthodox Judaism and am continually struck by the vast number of, frankly, bonkers rituals with the most tenuous basis in any sort of rational or practical thought - plus some pretty contrived ways people have devised of working around them. And I do apologise if that sounds anti-Semitic, and I can absolutely understand why deeply orthodox Jews have clung to a certain way of life (again, in part, for a sense of safety and belonging).

It seems that no-one who thinks I'm being unreasonable (and it's in no way a surprise that some people do) is willing to make a case for why.

How do you define what is less than rational? I do agree humans feel the need to be a part of something, to be a part of community. For the groups that don’t fall into following religion or following conspiracy do you feel the same psychological parallels apply? You’re family being an example of atheists and Christians, the lack of belief in god could surely pull a comparison to the belief in god, but is one more irrational than the other?

Does the belief of god have comparison to believing in the good of people? There’s many correlations even for those who don’t follow either groups, because surely everything draws to a theory? For example at present moment with wearing masks there’s supporting evidence to wear and not to wear- the psychological parallel would be the same but was is deemed as more rational and which becomes fact and the right thing to do? It’s certainly questionable and not a one size for all.

I’ve always led with an open mind and I don’t take what I’m told from certain sources as factual. Do I attend church or follow religion no, as I don’t agree with what religion represents but I do believe in a higher power. Do I believe governments have agendas absolutely, do I believe media organisations have a heavy hand in the implementation of what governments do 100%, but for me this is as plain as day and I don’t see it as something that would be deemed alternative or conspiracy but I know some will draw that conclusion that it is.

Maybe for those who don’t believe in conspiracy theories feel safer doing so? Maybe people who don’t believe in god feel safer not believing? We are all so vastly different that it would be interesting to see the world from being in another’s shoes- would be a prefer to live from our own perspective or that or someone else’s?

Completely agree @GoshHasana. I find the constant negative focus on what is not even a global population of 20 million frankly bizarre.

of course you don't have to be "mad" to be religious, but you do have to have to suspend disbelief to a certain extent

You are wrongly equating belief with suspension of disbelief OP. They are not the same thing. Both atheists and theists have their beliefs. And both are capable of rational thought, irrational thought and suspending disbelief. That's why I voted YABU.

How do you define what is less than rational?

Well mental health professionals are assessing this all the time.

A random example: I'm taking a casserole dish out of the oven and don't want to burn my hands, so I wear oven gloves. This is rational.

The oven has been off for some time, but I use the oven gloves regardless, just in case. This is less rational, but based on something that makes sense.

I don't wear oven gloves, but say a prayer and repeatedly gesticulate, believing this will prevent me from getting burnt by the casserole dish which has been in the oven at 200 degrees. This is irrational.

You are wrongly equating belief with suspension of disbelief OP. They are not the same thing. Both atheists and theists have their beliefs. And both are capable of rational thought, irrational thought and suspending disbelief. That's why I voted YABU.

I'm not sure I'm equating them exactly. But to believe in God requires faith, in the way that believing in, say, evolution doesn't.

Could you explain a bit more what you mean OP? I think conspiracy theorists believe they have proof and argue their case whereas some people who believe that there is a spiritual side to life know that it is a matter of faith and feeling and therefore not provable. Perhaps fundamentalism, the type of religion that thinks it has a monopoly on the truth has something in common with conspiracy theorists, I don't know.

I don’t know. Religions have so many elements - culture, aesthetics, literature, meditation, moral code, history. So there is a lot of appeal in them beyond attempting to communicate with the supernatural.

There seem to be few benefits to being a conspiracy theorist. I mean, even people who believe in conspiracies that are true, it’s kind of a dull thing to base a large part of your life around.

Faith is not suspension of disbelief. Evolution is a scientific theory, not a belief.

Most of the religious people I know don’t spout conspiracy theories. Some of the smartest people I know are Muslims or Christians.
Some of the tin hat brigade I know are atheists.

What I have noticed is that when I mention Christianity to Muslim colleagues and neighbours, they have never once been disrespectful about it. But many atheists have been

Could you explain a bit more what you mean OP?

I'll try.

These are the things I think they (being religious or of being a conspiracy theorist) have in common: the feeling of gaining a "purpose" (part of which is convincing others that what you believe is true, with the aim of them joining you in your belief); the membership of a group of people who all believe vehemently in the same thing; the feeling of being special or chosen (as you know the "truth", unlike many other people); the willingness to put your faith in something which is difficult (or impossible) to prove scientifically or logically.

So I'm saying there seems (to me) to be quite a lot of crossover, and then extrapolating from that that there could be similarities in the psychopathologies of members of both groups.

Most of the religious people I know don’t spout conspiracy theories.

That's not really what I'm saying. Someone looking for some sort of validation, meaning or kinship these groups can provide may be able to get it from one or other of them; they may not need to be a member of both.

Psychopathology is the study of abnormal cognitions, behavior and experiences. Being religious is not considered abnormal by most MH professionals as at least 50% of the world's population are religious.

Most religious people are born into their religion. They don’t join them. It’s just the background of their life.

Not all religions are involved in conversion attempts. Not all religious people believe on the basis of faith. Not all believe theirs is the only truth or feel special.

Conspiracy theorists generally go to great lengths to demonstrate their views are based on material facts, unless you mean conspiracy theorists who believe in demonic interference or similar.

@DioneTheDiabolist

Faith is not suspension of disbelief. Evolution is a scientific theory, not a belief.

Is some suspension of disbelief not necessary in order to have faith in something that's both unlikely and unprovable? I'd have said so, but may be wrong.

Re. evolution, I agree it's not a belief, but some people (i.e. creationists) don't believe in it. Same with holocaust deniers.

Faith is when you base your belief on spiritual experience.

Suspension of disbelief is when you temporarily pretend to believe in something so as to have a cathartic experience.

They are two different things, although there may be people involved in religion who do the latter rather than the former.

Most religious people are born into their religion. They don’t join them. It’s just the background of their life.

That's a salient point. Perhaps I'm referring more to people who have found their religious calling later in life and therefore tend to be more evangelical.

Not all religious people believe on the basis of faith.

Sorry, I don't really understand this. What is their belief based on if not faith?

Conspiracy theorists generally go to great lengths to demonstrate their views are based on material facts...

Some religious people try quite hard to prove that what they believe is true. Citing miracles seems to be a common way to do this, ime.

No. People believe in things. This is very different from "suspending disbelief", which is a temporary mental state, usually done when enjoying a movie or story.