Conspiracy theories and religion

[UnaCorda]

(Inspired by, but not about, another thread.)

I realise this is a bit sacrilegious, but AIBU to suggest that you could draw parallels between religion and conspiracy theories, and also between the psychology of (some of) those who believe in either or both of them?

If you made religious or had kids christening, you cannot scoff at conspiracy theorists, at least they base theories on things that at are happening, rather than religion has no basis in anything.

‘Not all religious people believe on the basis of faith.

Sorry, I don't really understand this. What is their belief based on if not faith?’

Lots of people are religious for cultural reasons without any real involvement in the supernatural element, and some just believe based on tradition rather than on direct spiritual experience.

Miracles are not something that ordinary people really get any say in, and are not really a basis for demonstrating a faith is true. Or at least I have never heard anyone attempt to convert a non believer on the basis of a weeping statue.

@UnaCorda I don't know what your experience of religion is but I don't think it sounds like any religious people I know. If anything a reason for being religious or teaching kids about religion is to know the difference between religions/cults/conspiracy theories. As a Catholic I couldn't care less about converting anyone or feeling safe and special other than that I'm as special as anyone else.

I can and do think critically and conspiracy theories are not something I'm interested in.

I think both groups of people tend to believe things with very little or next to no real evidence, they also tend to believe there is a bigger meaning behind things, rather than things just happening by chance, so yes I think there are similarities.

I think you've got a point, in that CTs fill a vacuum that some people feel because they don't know what to do with the hole left by not having faith in a religion. The need to belong to that remains, but is directionless and CTs are Even Better than religion!! So I think "atheists" are more prone to CT beliefs. But I think it goes beyond that too, in the sense that your average Christian is not zealously trying to convert people, but the fundamentalists will try to do that. Mrs Jones who goes to chapel is not the same as the Westboro Baptist lot. The CT lot, well they can't let it go, got to try and convert everyone.

Going back to the frequent focus on Jewish people in CTs, this is the most disturbing aspect for me. It's no coincidence, this has been around for centuries and the far right are these days peddling the weirdest CTs and most outlandish anti-Semitic ones in particular. I actually knew someone who fell down that rabbit hole, proper holocaust denial bullshit and his partner is, drumroll... Jewish. But it pops up everywhere and links otherwise lefty people, ie CTists, directly in to present day fascism. They can't even fucking see it, so much for being woke!!!

So in summary, fuck off CTists, you are absolutely deluded and I will cut you out of my life without a backward glance, every time - and I hope everyone else does too, then you might 'wake up'. Should've 'done your research' about what people are prepared to put up with in relationships, eh?

There is a bigger meaning behind things and things don’t just happen by chance.

Humans have the capability to make sense of this and make predictions.

If it's the thread I'm thinking of, op, I said something similar there. Symptoms regarded as being of mental illness can in other contexts be understood as religious experiences- hearing voices, visual hallucinations, belief in interaction with an unseen greater power, etc. It's very interesting to me.

I read your further explanation. I think religion and spirituality can be differentiated. I don't think faith in a higher power would necessarily lead to a feeling of superiority. I don't know about the feeling of belonging that some religious organisations give. Most humans want to feel they belong somewhere.

Could we have a link to the other thread?

@Stripesgalore

There really isn't we are like any other animal we are here to further our selves.

@DioneTheDiabolist

No. People believe in things. This is very different from "suspending disbelief", which is a temporary mental state, usually done when enjoying a movie or story.

If that counts as a definition, I think I may have used the terminology incorrectly.

Lots of people are religious for cultural reasons without any real involvement in the supernatural element, and some just believe based on tradition rather than on direct spiritual experience.

Ah, I see what you mean. So pretty much the opposite end of the scale to fervent, evangelical types.

Here’s me, so you don’t believe it is going to get dark tonight or it is going to be cold this winter?

Humans have capabilities to understand what happened hundreds of years ago and predict some things that won’t happen until very far into the future, because we have cognitive abilities beyond that of other species. There aren’t other species who understand Mars is another planet or who are making plans to go there.

Unacorda, I wouldn’t say they were the opposite end to evangelical and fervent.

I would say those who follow a religion based on spiritual experience are at the mystical/gnostic end those following traditions and texts at the other.

Either could be evangelical and fervent.

So in summary, fuck off CTists, you are absolutely deluded and I will cut you out of my life without a backward glance, every time - and I hope everyone else does too, then you might 'wake up'. Should've 'done your research' about what people are prepared to put up with in relationships, eh?

Funny you should say this. I had a very brief relationship with someone who turned out to be a CT. He wittered on about 5G etc., and was always talking about his "research". In fact almost the first thing he said when his mum was taken into hospital with covid was that he had to go and do some research. (NB He had no medical training.)

Needless to say he didn't last long.

@DioneTheDiabolist

Psychopathology is the study of abnormal cognitions, behavior and experiences. Being religious is not considered abnormal by most MH professionals as at least 50% of the world's population are religious.

Is psychopathology seen a spectrum?

What about being a religious extremist? Or sects such as Westboro Baptists, Amish, etc.? Would they count as "abnormal"?

Why would being Amish be a psychopathology? They don’t believe anything particularly unusual.

There is a bigger meaning behind things and things don’t just happen by chance.

That is an opinion, not a fact. (And my opinion of this trope is that it is both trite and utter bollocks.)

Humans have the capability to make sense of this and make predictions.

Humans are very good at making sense of patterns. We cannot make predictions based on illogical mumbo-jumbo - other than those predicated on the observation of others' unwavering belief in said mumbo-jumbo (i.e. I can predict that someone who subscribes to the "everything happens for a reason" theory will probably cite this when they or someone they know experiences a relationship break-up).

@stripesgalore

Here’s me, so you don’t believe it is going to get dark tonight or it is going to be cold this winter?

You talked about a bigger purpose, what you say above is just nature nothing to do with god or anything.

CT have as much validation as the religious

and also between the psychology of (some of) those who believe in either or both of them?

What do you mean by that ?

I didn’t talk about a bigger purpose. I responded to a poster who mentioned a greater meaning than things happening by chance.

It isn’t about god. Many conspiracy theories have nothing to do with god.

@Stripesgalore

Why would being Amish be a psychopathology? They don’t believe anything particularly unusual.

They do have very unusual behaviours, based on their beliefs. It's objectively quite unusual to believe that you shouldn't use modern technology such as cars and the internet, is it not?

I don’t think it is more psycho pathological than me being a vegetarian and using public transport.

@ItsAlwaysSunnyOnMN

and also between the psychology of (some of) those who believe in either or both of them?

What do you mean by that ?

I think I've already explained this further above, but, in brief, I mean that I suspect that a psychologist could find similar traits in people who are drawn to conspiracy theories and those who are drawn to religion, especially the more evangelical forms.

‘There is a bigger meaning behind things and things don’t just happen by chance.

That is an opinion, not a fact. (And my opinion of this trope is that it is both trite and utter bollocks.)‘

It isn’t an opinion. It will get dark tonight because the earth revolves around its axis. We are able to predict and understand that because we can comprehend greater meaning than just thinking things are randomly happening by chance with no possible explanation or predictability.