To be outraged that prison officers get a 4k bonus for Covid overtime, while NHS staff have got nothing?

[PPEcompensatoryeyeliner]

www.lowdownnhs.info/news/covid-19-bonuses-for-prison-staff-what-about-care-workers/

I waa talking to a friend who works in a prison yesterday. They are receiving 4k bonuses for commiting to 9hrs a week overtime for 12 weeks. They are on the same pay scale as nurses.

I don't resent them bonuses, they a do hard and difficult job. But I know so many nurses who routinely do unpaid overtime to make sure things keep running and patients get care, and it's been repeatedly estimated that between 40-50% of nurses do 5hrs unpaid each week. I personally as a ward manager usually work at least an extra hour a day and have done for years, if I don't something is missed.

I think the government knew that NHS and care staff would work for free because we're needed to, and counted on this.

I agree with you.

It’s not a race to the bottom; they’ve done the overtime (and 9 hours a week for 12 weeks is 108 hours - that’s a lot of overtime) and they’ve been paid for it.

YANBU. All the doctors* I know would say that they don't need bonuses, but that nurses do. A doctor friend was saying just the other day that nurses do, arguably, a more difficult job and that their pay should be a lot closer to what doctors earn.

*except the GPs in my acquaintance, all of whom seem to find work hideous, and not just because of covid!

I agree with @PotteringAlong- the problem here isn't that the prison staff got the bonus, which seems fair and appropriate considering the extra hours worked, but that the NHS staff didn't.

@AltheaVestr1t

I agree with *@PotteringAlong*- the problem here isn't that the prison staff got the bonus, which seems fair and appropriate considering the extra hours worked, but that the NHS staff didn't.

isn't that exactly what the op said though? It isn't that the prison guards SHOULDN'T get a bonus. It's that HCPs should too. That was how I read it anyway, but it is early .

the problem here isn't that the prison staff got the bonus, which seems fair and appropriate considering the extra hours worked, but that the NHS staff didn't.

I said in my OP I don't resent them the bonus.

Probation staff working in prisons aren't getting it, neither are those in the community despite a shed load of unpaid overtime during this. I would say though the starting rate for a prison officer where I live was £16k until relatively recently when there was a national reform. The level of assaults on staff in prisons is escalating ridiculously and potting is becoming more and more common. Nurses have a really hard and worthy job, but you couldn't pay me enough to be a prison officer

Prison officers are on pay scales similar to nursing staff, beginning on £22-£30,000.

Have you ever worked in prisons OP?

Maybe the ones that are still government owned have that pay scale but the vast number of privately owned jails don’t pay officers anywhere close to that amount.

I worked in a SERCO circa 2014 for a bit and have spent a fair few years volunteering in both private and state owned prisons. In 2014 a prison officer started on 16-17k and remained on that indefinitely. There was no ‘pay scale’ of natural progression in salary. You could move up a little by getting more senior roles but they were few and far between so many were stuck on £17k.

If you’ve never worked in a prison it’s difficult to understand what a gruelling environment it is. As a woman in a men’s prison you’re dealing with sexual harassment every hour multiple times per hour. The ever present threat of violence. Walking through the wing knowing a group of lads chucked a washing machine off the balcony last week and looking at the dent in the floor hoping you’re not under it next time lol. Daily attacks on staff. As in, daily. It was part of our daily email update. Oppressive environment that often smells and is short of fresh air, spending your working day with people who have their good qualities too but you know have been convicted of murder, rape, and so forth. An environment ridden with drugs and desperation.

I’ve worked for the nhs for quite a few years and regardless of pay, I’ve never seen a role quite as challenging and risky as working in the prisons. On our first induction day in the jail part of the spiel was to show us to a table full of weapons, homemade and otherwise, that had been recovered from cells. So we didn’t get complacent and understood the threat.

I get that you’re saying you want nhs staff to be rewarded as well but it’s pretty obvious this isn’t a reward is it? It’s an incentive. It’s business. They’re offering extra cash to get people to agree to more hours, just like agency nhs staff take on more shifts for extra cash. The alternative is mandating people to work extra anyway which is illegal, or having jails even more short staffed than they already are, which makes the job even riskier for staff and increases the risk of riots.

You’re right that the nhs is propped up by people doing unpaid overtime, and I don’t know what the solution is to that. Most people in caring professions won’t just down tools at hometime when it could harm patients. But I’m all in favour of giving prison staff a bit of extra incentive to do more work especially in these times. Prisons will be hotbeds of covid transmission. I’m sure the only reason that’s not mentioned in the press is cos nobody cares about offenders in the way they do elderly people in nursing homes.

I don't begrudge the prison officers, but I do think NHS staff have been taken for granted for years.

I think NHS staff could have justifiably gone on strike over PPE, but of course couldn't because of their patients. That is always an issue for health staff - it is hard to say no to overtime or other bad conditions because their work is so critical.

YANBU

It's unfair. Teachers also worked for free. I only mention it not as a top trumps but to show that it's telling that two female heavy professions received no overtime pay but the male based profession did.

I would support HCPs being very vocal about unpaid overtime.

The renumeration for prison staff and NHS staff are separate issues. YANBU to think NHS and care staff deserve better, YABU to link this to individuals elsewhere being paid overtime.

But wasn’t overtime paid as it was worked for nurses? My fiend’s sister who is a nurse was on a higher rate for the overtime worked during covid. Maybe the prison officers weren’t paid up front but agreed to these extra hours and have now been paid for them?

Prison officers definitely deserve decent pay but I agree with you, there are other jobs that do as well. I did a series of fairly straightforward office roles before changing careers to become a teacher and my salary dropped significantly despite the role being far more challenging (& requiring a greater level of qualifications and skills). Nurses, paramedics, teachers, police officers - all underpaid IMHO. This has probably been the hardest term I’ve ever worked! I don’t expect to be paid overtime, but I do think a better basic wage is in order.

Crossed posts with Sharkerr - that was a really informative post about prison staff. Thank you.

two female heavy professions received no overtime pay but the male based profession did

Yep, sounds about right! Predominently female careers don't get paid well.

The most head-in-my-hands article I read about the gender pay gap was when I read about the IT industry and how it had started off as a 'woman's job' ergo low paid. When it started to be of interest to men it was suddenly a more lucrative career.

Not getting paid for overtime? I don’t know any nurse who doesn’t get paid for over time.
Bank holidays etc they get paid double & quite often my friend gets to leave early , so if what you’re saying is true I think it’s balanced.

PO had no ppe , I actually don’t think they follow the same pay scale and I believe they have a much, much tougher job.

I do believe that nurses pay scales are wrong & should be based on skill and experience and that overall they definitely need a rise in line with inflation but I don’t think they are any worse off than any other front line job, or , police, fire service or teachers.

If you’ve never worked in a prison it’s difficult to understand what a gruelling environment it is. As a woman in a men’s prison you’re dealing with sexual harassment every hour multiple times per hour. The ever present threat of violence. Walking through the wing knowing a group of lads chucked a washing machine off the balcony last week and looking at the dent in the floor hoping you’re not under it next time lol. Daily attacks on staff. As in, daily. It was part of our daily email update.

I'm a mental health nurse. From your description working in a MH unit isn't far off, assaults on staff are frequent and I know staff who have had life changing injuries. I was strangled once at work. My friends in A&E have a terrible time, too, and a friend who is a carer in a nursing home was horrifically sexually assaulted by a resident.

Working in prisons is bloody difficult and I haven't denied that. But working in the NHS is also very challenging and overtime bonuses should reflect that. To pay officers £39ish an hour for overtime while crossing your fingers that a stressed nurse will stay on for free is appalling and communicates alot about how care is valued.

And I don’t think a nurses job is more difficult than a drs, that’s none sense.

Excellent post @Sharkerr

Nurses refuse to go on strike normally - makes the job more of a calling than a job.

To be fair OP, there are a LOT of professions that have gone over and above throughout this crisis, not just some areas of the NHS (and not all staff have had to work hours above and beyond) that also deserve a payrise, and who have been forgotten throughout this. Social Workers, probation workers, teachers, registrars of deaths. Even places that run infrastructure like the internet and phone companies have had to work harder because of the pressure of everyine working at home.
Prison officers definitely deserve one though, longer/permanent lock up, dealing with lads who have had crisises at home and no family visits, no access to a lot of support services.

I've worked as a Staff nurse and neither I nor my colleagues ever did unpaid overtime. To do so is counter productive, management will then consider that the extra hours or staff are not needed.

I can't see prison officers working unpaid!

Many many jobs people have to put unpaid hours in open reach engineers have to give an hour at the beginning and the end of there day to travel to and from there first/last job 10 hours every week for zero pay .
In every retail job I have had paid till when shop shut 5.30 then still loads to do to empty tills and lock up .
home carers have to travel to first job all in there own time

YABU for 'whataboutery'.

All public sector workers on the front line - hospitals, prisons, classroom teachers - are paid poorly. That's what is unreasonable. Divide and prosper won't help.

I'm sorry but how did teachers work unpaid overtime?

Most teachers were at home during the whole lockdown with the odd day in to mind the key worker kids. How they have racked up unpaid overtime is beyond me. I'm sure there are a few teachers who have gone above and beyond (my DCs headteacher for one) but the vast majority have had an easy time of it.

Prison officers, police officers and other law enforcement professionals on the other hand haven't been able to stay at home or work from home. I have utmost respect for every one of them. Prison officers are underpaid anyway, it's a difficult, thankless job. They deserve that overtime.