To be outraged that prison officers get a 4k bonus for Covid overtime, while NHS staff have got nothing?

[PPEcompensatoryeyeliner]

www.lowdownnhs.info/news/covid-19-bonuses-for-prison-staff-what-about-care-workers/

I waa talking to a friend who works in a prison yesterday. They are receiving 4k bonuses for commiting to 9hrs a week overtime for 12 weeks. They are on the same pay scale as nurses.

I don't resent them bonuses, they a do hard and difficult job. But I know so many nurses who routinely do unpaid overtime to make sure things keep running and patients get care, and it's been repeatedly estimated that between 40-50% of nurses do 5hrs unpaid each week. I personally as a ward manager usually work at least an extra hour a day and have done for years, if I don't something is missed.

I think the government knew that NHS and care staff would work for free because we're needed to, and counted on this.

Nurses do get paid for extra shifts?

Well the nhs staff have received a raft of other discounts and benefits that no other group of key workers have - didn’t see an unfairness in that ?

Prison staff aren't on anything close to same pay as nurses, and nurses were, of course, paid for their overtime (sometimes at a higher rate but that varies).

This isn't a race to the bottom. Comparing prison staff to nurses is like comparing apples to oranges. They're two very different things. I haven't heard of prison staff recieving this bonus, but as someone said above most of them are privately run now.

I can't see prison officers working unpaid

If a prison goes into ‘lockdown’, for however long, due to an outbreak of violence or a riot, prison officers have to stay - regardless of how long a shift they have already put in, and deal with the emergency situation. They have worked without any PPE throughout this crisis and have barely drawn any attention, let alone appreciation from the media or public. They really are the forgotten or ignored front line service.

YABU - and you are part of the problem that makes the prison service the forgotten service.

You've absolutely no idea what it is like to be a prison officer and they are not nearly on equal pay to nurses who do already get paid overtime rates.

"I can't see prison officers working unpaid"

Well they do. Regularly. Most shifts in fact. They've spent decades fighting for fair pay and overtime rates that might even slightly reflect the unsafe conditions they are expected to work in to keep you safe.

Well the nhs staff have received a raft of other discounts and benefits that no other group of key workers have - didn’t see an unfairness in that ?

I see the unfairness @mrsbyers and so did many of my nhs colleagues. Quite a lot in my team made the point that it seems back to front that nhs workers are given all of these discounts and freebies when we’re the ones who’ve been lucky enough to keep our jobs.

And can’t those discounts and freebies go to people who can show they’ve been furloughed on 80% or lost their jobs? We are still earning the same (if not more, there was a lot of overtime to pick up).

Of course it is just companies riding the temporary ‘we love our nhs! Gawd luv ‘em!’ train for the positive press and boost in their public image.

Myself and my colleagues (nurses) regularly leave late, usually 30 minutes late but sometimes up to an hour late, on many shifts. We once had one horrific shift that meant we didn’t leave until two hours after the end of our shift time. I would say on average a full time worker probably works about 9-10 hours overtime a month and I can guarantee you we don’t see a £1 of it.

If a prison goes into ‘lockdown’, for however long, due to an outbreak of violence or a riot, prison officers have to stay - regardless of how long a shift they have already put in, and deal with the emergency situation. They have worked without any PPE throughout this crisis and have barely drawn any attention, let alone appreciation from the media or public. They really are the forgotten or ignored front line service.

👏🏻

I often think anyone who slags off or denigrates prison staff is claims prison is a cushy environment needs to spend a few weeks working in one. Too many people spout off about things they have zero idea about.

Nurses are paid for extra shifts. They call them bank shifts. It sounds like the police are being paid for their extra shifts too. Maybe bonus is the wrong word.

@KaptainKaveman

YABU for 'whataboutery'.

All public sector workers on the front line - hospitals, prisons, classroom teachers - are paid poorly. That's what is unreasonable. Divide and prosper won't help.

I'm sorry but I have to disagree,, generally at the lower end of the scale front line public sector workers are paid significantly more than their private sector counterparts. Most experienced front line teachers, police officers & nurses earn around 30k-40k.

I'm not for a second saying they don't deserve the money but remember that front line supermarket staff and private care workers will be on little more than minimum wage!

Right. Fair enough. So your unions should fight that then.

And what has that got to do with prison officers? Should they be bashed even further and work for free?

@KaptainKaveman

YABU for 'whataboutery'.

All public sector workers on the front line - hospitals, prisons, classroom teachers - are paid poorly. That's what is unreasonable. Divide and prosper won't help.

I'm sorry but I have to disagree,, generally at the lower end of the scale front line public sector workers are paid significantly more than their private sector counterparts. Most experienced front line teachers, police officers & nurses earn around 30k-40k.

I'm not for a second saying they don't deserve the money but remember that front line supermarket staff and private care workers will be on little more than minimum wage!

@Sharkerr

Well the nhs staff have received a raft of other discounts and benefits that no other group of key workers have - didn’t see an unfairness in that ?

I see the unfairness @mrsbyers and so did many of my nhs colleagues. Quite a lot in my team made the point that it seems back to front that nhs workers are given all of these discounts and freebies when we’re the ones who’ve been lucky enough to keep our jobs.

And can’t those discounts and freebies go to people who can show they’ve been furloughed on 80% or lost their jobs? We are still earning the same (if not more, there was a lot of overtime to pick up).

Of course it is just companies riding the temporary ‘we love our nhs! Gawd luv ‘em!’ train for the positive press and boost in their public image.

This is one thing that's really bugged me throughout to be honest. There are literally thousands of people who are worse off (financially) than NHS workers due to this Pandemic. People who have lost jobs or been furloughed through no fault of their own and no one gives a shit about them or gives them a discount on anything. Nevermind the fact that there are tonnes of other keyworkers who don't work for the NHS who seem to miss out on all these discounts and freebies too.

@sauvignonblancplz -

Not getting paid for overtime? I don’t know any nurse who doesn’t get paid for over time.
Bank holidays etc they get paid double & quite often my friend gets to leave early , so if what you’re saying is true I think it’s balanced

This is not strictly true - unless they are private sector with different ts&cs.

NHS nurses are on the same agenda for change pay scales. I can’t speak for every health authority but where we are, nurses don’t get overtime (ie paid their salary rate or more) but rather planned extra shifts are through the nurses bank which pays mid point band 5 - so if you’ve been qualified for years you could be top point band 5 or band 6, 7 so your extra shifts will be paid less despite you still bring expected to do senior / higher level work. Overtime rates are only paid in exceptional circumstances such as a nurses with specific skills is needed eg advanced nurse practitioner. Sometimes agency nurses are brought in who are actually paid more per hour, but those costs come out of a different budget so a ward manager may not be allowed to give a member of staff the extra shift, someone who knows the ward and the patients., instead they may be forced to use an agency nurse who has never set foot in the hospital let alone the ward which is not particularly helpful as they cannot function as well as someone who knows the area. In fact having to orientate someone new to the ward, emergency equipment, fire escapes, ward layout, phone system, emergency call out numbers, patient records etc can be more work than not having the person at all!

Bank holidays are not paid double - it’s time and two thirds. But When agenda for change came through, this rate was part of the negotiations and was agreed only after nurses/unions agreed to permanently forfeit 2 public holidays.

Yes, nurses sometimes get to leave early - wards tend to unofficially rotate whose turn it is to get away a half hour early if it is quiet. This is likely to be a fraction of the times they’ve left late or gone without a break.

The reality is that the biggest majority of nurses now work over their paid hours on a regular basis as unpaid overtime. Without this, the NHS would collapse. The system takes advantage of nurses who don’t want to leave their patients or their colleagues in the shit.

There will always be arseholes who take the piss in every profession and nursing is no different. But if the pay rates are so good and nurses are always bunking off early, why are people leaving the profession in droves, with some hospitals having as much as 50% vacancy rates?

And it’s not a race to the bottom. Everyone should get appropriately paid for additional work they do if they are on contracted hours and work over.

"front line supermarket staff" seriously?! Try one shift on a residential unit in a prison. Putting in a shift at Lidl isn't quite the "front line"

I would say on average a full time worker probably works about 9-10 hours overtime a month

The op states that the prison officers committed to 9hrs a week overtime for 12 weeks, not 9 hours a month.

Nurses were paid a higher rate of overtime

To add to recent comments - I totally agree that the giving of freebies to nhs staff is misjudged and the money/gifts/discounts should have been directed to helping those on no income or very low incomes.

For the 3rd time: I don't resent prison officers their overtime bonus. I know they do a tough job in dangerous conditions. So do nurses. I have been assaulted at work more times than I can remember.

Lots of people are saying nurses get paid for overtime. We get paid for additional shifts, and a registered nurse will get around £14 an hour for this. When I say unpaid overtime I mean the average of hundreds of unpaid hours nurses do individually, by choice, to make sure care is delivered. This has been well observed for decades and I believe the government counted on it in managing covid.

I'm not interested in whataboutery. Where teachers/social workers/police are working additional hours due to covid they should be properly paid too.

@youhave4substitutes

"front line supermarket staff" seriously?! Try one shift on a residential unit in a prison. Putting in a shift at Lidl isn't quite the "front line"

I agree, and the prison service is probably the most under rated public service. No one is out clapping for them, but they keep many of the worst people in society away from our streets. But remember those working in supermarkets are providing an essential service presently and they potentially risk their lives if they catch Covid.

Sorry YABU. My mind boggles at the environment that prison officers work in and as has been said before, my understanding is that it is grim at the best of times, and they've had no PPE etc in this period. Noone's been clapping for them but if they all went on strike we'd all be done for.

Plus, everyone I know, even those working from home in professional jobs are all working much longer hours than normal, even allowing for the commute. I don't get paid overtime for it, I'm grateful to have a good job and I want to do it well and that's what is involved at the moment.

@THisbackwithavengeance No, not all teachers will have worked their full hours but as a primary teacher, I did and many others did too. A 10 hr day once a week then setting online learning daily (and whatever people say about uploading Twinkl sheets, even uploading one worksheet takes time in terms of finding something suitable, getting it on the website in an appropriate format, providing an answer key, providing feedback.) I set about 4 hours work a day, but am a part time teacher. The unpaid work was when I did days in the holidays that I received no pay for (and spent time planning for in advance). That's fine, but I resent the idea all teachers have been on a jolly - parents don't see everything behind the scenes.

@PPEcompensatoryeyeliner

For the 3rd time: I don't resent prison officers their overtime bonus. I know they do a tough job in dangerous conditions. So do nurses. I have been assaulted at work more times than I can remember.

Lots of people are saying nurses get paid for overtime. We get paid for additional shifts, and a registered nurse will get around £14 an hour for this. When I say unpaid overtime I mean the average of hundreds of unpaid hours nurses do individually, by choice, to make sure care is delivered. This has been well observed for decades and I believe the government counted on it in managing covid.

I'm not interested in whataboutery. Where teachers/social workers/police are working additional hours due to covid they should be properly paid too.

The whole rationale of your OP was based on whataboutery OP. It's a bit late to disown it now.

And to add, yes I think prison staff AND nurses deserve bonuses, and agree being out on the front line every day is very different to being able to WFH.