To be very angry the government is lying to us.

[user1468867871]

Followers of Professor Sikora ( head of Rutherford Cancer Centres) were shocked when he revealed last night that the government has been lying to us. They have been hugely inflating numbers of people dying from COVID. They have been trawling the database of dead people and anyone who dies and has had a Covid test is being recorded as dying with Covid. This is because they seriously over estimated how dangerous the virus was at the beginning. Cancer patient have been denied treatment, children missing education and millions unemployed because the modeling was wrong and they’ve doubled down.
mobile.twitter.com/ProfKarolSikora/status/1283851195396902912

@RJnomore1

I genuinely thought Alzheimer’s was eventually fatal?

It is. But there has been a massive rise in deaths from dementia, mostly in care homes I think.

IIRC the ONS view on this was it was likely to be undiagnosed covid but needed looking into further.

Given the excess death rate and the problems we’ve had with testing, it seems more likely that the death rate has been undercounted than over counter.

They’re lying all the time about a variety of different things; I’m not convinced by this one though as how do you explain the excess deaths we’ve seen? I also read an article in the guardian about figures being downplayed at the peak so who to believe?

@skeptile and @user1468867871 what do you think about this 'professor' having read @weepingwillow22 's summary of his various lies, dodgy dealings, and general evidence of being a fraudster and fantasist?

Someone dumping something like this then running off looks suspicious itself to me.

Where are PHE finding the deaths that they report, if they are not in hospital?

All deaths and cause are reported no matter where it took place - it is illegal to conceal a death even if you did not cause it. The non hospital deaths could be at home, on the bus, in a car park, at the supermarket - they all are recorded.

I'm not sure I'd believe Sikora if he told me the world was round. If anything, my strong suspicion is that the government is underestimating the number of deaths and has done so consistently from the start.

Critically think about this. Every country must be in on it and those that keep records, started planning this at least five years ago, so it looks like there has been thousands of excess deaths. Now take into account the reduced movement on roads, no pub fights, very few muggings, no team sport injuries etc etc. Why have we had the number of deaths that we have had and why has our NHS, along with the health systems in other countries, been overwheled?

Sikora's credentials are no better than the random mail men and other people who've wanted their five minutes of fame on this subject and pop up on FB.

Sorry soap, you’ve fallen for fake news.

The government did use mortality databases and every death where a person had Covid, they did record that as dying with Covid. This is not most accurate way but they were truthful. It’s not their fault you don’t understand the methodology noted they truthfully published.

And the above is not purposely “inflating the deaths” that would be doing things like being so negligent that you count some deaths twice or indulging in spurious extrapolations. Which they did not do.

Rule no.1 always check the source. Are they reliable and honest? Do they have a good track record? Would I leave them alone with my children?

If the answer to any of the above is 'no' the information is likely to be less than helpful.

Hth

I’m more worried about the amount of utter shite on Twitter that people actually believe. This being one such example.

Yay let’s overinflate deaths to make us look even more incompetent (we already have the second worst death rate in the entire world after Belgium). And we can scare people even more to keep away from retail thereby sinking the economy ever further!
Er, no.

Soap= OP
Autocorrect

[quote weepingwillow22]A few of the things you might need to know about him :

He hates theNHS. Really, really hates it. Calls it 'the last bastion of communism'.

He used to work for theWorld Health Organisation. He hates theWHO.He claimed he resigned, but smarter and more reliable sources say he was fired over some of his more, er, radical ideas, after a dispute with theUnited Nations(He hates them, too.Can you see a pattern emerging here?)

He is an Oncology Advisor. Not toHealth ServicesorNHS Trusts, who do not accept his more extreme thinking, but to pharmaceutical companiesCyclacelandAstraZeneca, who'll take anyone they can get.

He appeared inAmerican adverts for the Republican Party, attackingPresident Obama's Health Plan- with data that was later proven to be false. He is part of theUS Health Lobbythat aims to buy as many parts of the NHS as it can.

He has claimed for 22 years to beProfessor of OncologyatImperial College. He even introduced himself to aCommons Health Select Committeewith that title. He is not - and never was.This led Imperial to seek legal advice to stop Sikora from making such claims.

"I can confirm that Karol Sikora is not on the staff at Imperial and does not hold the title of honorary professor of oncology. This individual has been warned before by the college for making claims that he is employed by us, or associated with us. His views are very certainly not the views of the college."

- Prof Sir Roy Anderson, Imperial College London,

He loves his grand titles :

Dean of the School of Medicine at Buckingham- nothing to do with the established medical training system. it a privately funded school of medicine and alternative therapies.

Foundation Fellow ofThe Foundation for Integrated Health- a lobby group.

Chair of theFaculty of Integrated Medicine, which is unaffiliated with any university and is not a 'faculty' - it is another grandly-titled lobby group.

Member of theCollege of Medicine- another lobby group criticised extensively in theBritish Medical Journalfor its promotion of unproven alternative medicines.

He was one of three doctors that enabledLockerbiebomberAbdelbaset al-Megrahito be released, afterobtaining a diagnosis of imminent terminal cancer. The services werepaid for by theLibyan Government. Sikora gave him three months to live ... whereupon al-Megrahi recovered in miraculous fashion,living on for several years.

Hecalled forcancer drugs to be rationed for older patients, not in such a way as to open a discussion about the possibility of it, but as budgetary factor.

Along the way in his career, Sikora knowinglygave a lethal injection to a 14 year old patient, admitted doing so, but theGeneral Medical Councilcouldn't pursue the matter as it was over 5 years old by then and 'historical'

He defended several fellow medical professionals charged with items ranging fromincompetencetoprofessional misconducttomurder- who were either found guilty (Dr Jane Barton), or in one case, exonerated but confessed later to being guilty (Dr Howard Martin). Several deaths were involved, at least 15.

In his determination to destroy the NHS for his Pharma and Lobbyist employers, perhaps now, you understand why the Right Wing love him.

www.farrightwatch.net/2020/06/the-right-wings-favourite-crazy.html?m=1[/quote]
That saved me a job, thank you!

Part of me thinks that threads like these should be pulled. - why would a poster knowingly put up information which is misleading / bullshit on a social media site? It takes a minuscule amount of effort to see that this ‘professor’ spouts crap and could be described as a charlatan.
Is every site now infiltrated by bots deliberately trying to either bolster the shitty government or sew seeds of division?
Glad to see that MNers are not easily hoodwinked.

The ONS and excess deaths no.s are not lies and is the accurate measure. No way would the government be overestimating these figures. There have been many lies but overcounting is not one.

Thank you rafal I understand now

@weepingwillow22 thanks for looking into the source of the the "fake news". Something we should all be doing rather than believing any old shit on the internet.

OP governments don't tend to lie to make themselves look more incompetent, just the slightest smidge LG intelligence should tell you that. There's some nice fact checking sites out there. Maybe you should look
Into them

@DonaldTrumpsChopper, there were many people who died at home and even some Nurses in their quarters.

The advice to wait until your lips turn blue until you phone an ambulance, has caused the death of many people. In five cases I've read (i read through all of the morning papers on my phone), they'd been refused hospital admission by paramedics. As said, care home deaths were mostly outside of hospital. People are regularly discharged from hospitals into care homes for what used to be called 'TLC' (end of life care). I've used to work in end of life care and many people opt of of dying in hospital.

Chris Whitty said in one of the first conferences that "people will die from Covid and also because of it".

A few of the things you might need to know about him :

Thanks weepingwillow22. I knew some of this but certainly not the full extent.

Why would the government want to inflate the number of deaths? It's the death rate in certain other countries that seems very low to me.

We've known all along that the death numbers include everyone with a positive test even if they die in a car crash or are murdered. The figures being inflated isn't news.

I think lots of patients died 'with it' rather than 'of it'..... now that makes a difference.
Many of the elderly or end of life were end of life pathway at our local hospital. We had very few deaths locally and no-one at our hospital died under the age of 65.

Oh yes that's very likely. Thousands of doctors lying about the probable cause of death because they government' told them to. Do you believe everything you read?

I suppose a lot of gullible people believed Dr Andrew Wakefield about the MMR even though the whole medical profession disagreed with him.

Governments lie on a daily basis. I don't believe anything they say, especially the current bunch we have. They are masters of bullshit.

I know two people who have died. One had lung cancer and one had a heart attack. Both their deaths were recorded as dying with Covid19. I absolutely believe the government is inflating the figures. The relatives argued over the death certificate but they were told it must go down as Covid19.

So sick of people just repeating any old rubbish they see or hear without a second’s thought.

Has he tried to explain the 65k excess deaths, considerably more than the government figures?
Or why the government would want to have the biggest death rate in Europe?

Seems far more likely the figures are under reported.
Does he believe it's 5G causing it too?