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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

A little more understanding to those not wearing masks THREAD TWO

383 replies

Fuckinellitsme · 16/07/2020 18:14

Following on from the first thread here

Thank you to all the lovely posters who have shared their experiences on the first thread. It's been incredibly useful in understanding why some people are exempt from wearing a mask on transport, in shops and so on. Particularly in terms of learning about health conditions that aren't widely known, and also the psychological reasons for exemption. Some incredibly brave posters on that thread for whom I am full of admiration.

For those who need them exemption lanyards are available here

Sunflower lanyards can also be picked up for free at several large supermarkets, including Sainsbury's and Asda.

If anyone feels they want/are able to share their reasons for exemption, please do - it may help others to understand why many people can't wear masks, and also (if the last thread is anything to go by) is useful for educating the rest of us on conditions we're not familiar with.

Stay safe all 💐

OP posts:
Thread gallery
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NewNewt · 29/07/2020 09:11

Come on. You know that won't happen. We're living in an age where everyone is just waiting to dob their neighbours in for leaving their house, as any flick through the coronavirus threads will show you.

LangClegsInSpace · 29/07/2020 09:11

More government guidance:

In settings where face coverings are required in England, there are some circumstances, for health, age or equality reasons, where people are not expected to wear face coverings. Please be mindful and respectful of such circumstances, noting that some people are less able to wear face coverings, and that the reasons for this may not be visible to others.

www.gov.uk/government/publications/face-coverings-when-to-wear-one-and-how-to-make-your-own/face-coverings-when-to-wear-one-and-how-to-make-your-own#when-you-do-not-need-to-wear-a-face-covering

NewNewt · 29/07/2020 09:17

I know what the government guidance says. Doesn't change the situation in regards to people judging non mask wearers, unless they're going to print it out in large letters and stick it to the window of every shop, restaurant, service centre, church etc. Which they won't. The government have let you down if you can't wear a mask as a half hearted system has been implemented without proper thought. Have some agency if you can't wear a mask and don't like being judged negatively, which you will be, and try and do something to show that you're not just choosing not to wear a mask.

HeIenaDove · 29/07/2020 16:10

Do you feel the same way about age exemption or just medical exemption. Some 11 year olds look older so should they produce a copy of their birth certificate on request @NewNewt

And if you think not then why more onus on those with medical exemptions?

TestWorries · 29/07/2020 16:23

"Have some agency if you can't wear a mask and don't like being judged negatively, which you will be, and try and do something to show that you're not just choosing not to wear a mask."

@NewNewt I do actually think you mean well and are coming from a pragmatic and a "this is how it is" POV, but I think if you don't have personal experience of this, you risk coming across a bit "shruggy" (I'm articulate today!) and a bit dismissive. Plus I think you are wrong with your approach.

Your argument is basically "you have to show that you're not a knobhead" which is a fucking sad state of affairs and not one we should accept and be a party to.

"Please be mindful and respectful of such circumstances, noting that some people are less able to wear face coverings, and that the reasons for this may not be visible to others".

THAT is the legislation - the onus is on the public to STFU judging other members of the public - not on us to prove we aren't knobheads. To people we owe no justification to anyway.

I think for anyone who takes the time to post on threads like this could really put it to better use by posting to that effect on the my neighbour has no ears but still doesn't wear a mask AIBU to log it with 101 threads and point out the relevant legislation and tell them to back the fuck out of other people's business.

If members of the general public feel the need to try and enforce the legislation themselves they could start with reading it and realising they are the ones at fault - they should be mindful and respectful - they are the ones who are in breach of it!

The more people that point this out and raise awareness the better and I'm sure it would be appreciated.

BatShite · 29/07/2020 23:26

GPs are probably doing a fraction of their usual appointments and they don't have time to do certificates for those who really need them?

DH was originally told no. They didn't do it. Until he offered to pay for an exemption letter. 30 quid later and he has one (a few sentences long..definitely 30 quid worth of work..lol). So it seems they can if they get a bonus for doing so. Of course not everyone can afford to just pluck 30 quid from thin air, nor would they want to waste it when just a random card stating hidden illness is good enough.

SimplySteveRedux · 30/07/2020 02:30

Hello you amazing people StarStarStar

I'll update here, as well as my thread as things progress over time. So, I've received a response from the Trust.

"I will make contact with the senior manager of the Walk-in Centre to request a meeting for you"

BamboozledandBefuddled · 30/07/2020 08:52

@SimplySteveRedux That's good to hear - hopefully they arrange it quickly. There doesn't seem to be much joined-up thinking about at the moment so I do hope they're not going to say you must wear a mask to attend Hmm Keep us updated and good luck Flowers

HeIenaDove · 02/08/2020 00:50

www.theguardian.com/world/2020/aug/01/mask-face-coverings-i-cant-wear-one-health-reasons

Mask rage: ‘One man told me I shouldn't be allowed out if I can't wear one’
With face coverings compulsory in many settings, people unable to comply for health reasons are being challenged and abused
In the past few weeks, Paul Feeley has been abused four times for not wearing a mask on public transport. “I have a disability lanyard, which signifies I have a hidden disability. I tried to show it … And all I got back was a complete torrent of abuse.”

The most recent incident took place just after he first spoke to the Observer on Thursday. The abuse has made Feeley, who suffers from fibromyalgia, borderline personality disorder and panic attacks, feel “extraordinarily angry, anxious and upset”. He is unable to wear a face covering due to his medical conditions, and legally he is exempt – but he is now worried about travelling on buses and trams in his home town of Manchester. “One man said to me, ‘If you can’t wear a mask, you shouldn’t be allowed out.’”

Incidents of “mask rage” are making disabled people who are unable to wear a covering fearful of going out in public, charities warn, as they call on the government today to raise awareness about the legitimate reasons many people cannot wear them.

A wide range of charities – including Mind, Dementia UK, the National Autistic Society, Mencap, Asthma UK and Sense – want the government to mount a public awareness campaign about hidden disabilities and the mask exemption rules. These state that, for example, you do not need to wear a face covering in shops or on public transport if you find it difficult because of a physical or mental illness or disability, or if you are assisting someone who relies on lip reading to communicate, or if wearing a mask would cause you “severe distress”.

You can feel like you’re being smothered and suffocated. If people understood, they would feel more empathy
Tim Nicholls, National Autistic Society
Charities are being inundated with calls from disabled people who are feeling extremely anxious. “We’ve seen a significant number of people raising it [the issue],” said Tim Nicholls, spokesperson for the National Autistic Society. “What they have told us is that they can’t wear a mask and they also don’t feel like they can go out without one because they will be challenged, so they are just going to stay in.”

Wearing a mask can be overwhelming for an autistic person, he added. “You can feel like you’re being smothered and suffocated. I think that if people understood, they would feel more empathy and sympathy.

Face masks can also be problematic for people living with learning disabilities and anxiety disorders, leading to extreme distress or panic attacks, the charities say. “If people aren’t able to wear a mask for health reasons, they may feel guilty and worry about what others think. Challenging or verbally assaulting someone [for not wearing a mask] is likely to negatively affect their mental health, set their recovery back and could even prevent them from leaving the house,” said Stephen Buckley, spokesperson for the mental health charity Mind.

‘It’s been a real rollercoaster’: navigating autism in the Covid-19 chaos
Read more
The government needs to do more to communicate the exemption rules, said Sarah MacFadyen, head of policy at Asthma UK and the British Lung Foundation. “There’s not a lot of clarity in the public communications about who does and doesn’t need to wear a mask, and why that is,” she said. “The government needs to communicate that better and explain the full range of reasons why some people – such as those with severe lung conditions – might find it impossible.”

The charities are also calling on supermarket chains and public transport companies to make announcements reminding people not to assume that anyone not wearing a mask is breaking the rules. “The government needs to lead the way, but it’s also about supermarkets, transport companies and other places where masks are needed, being confident about communicating that – and saying please don’t challenge anyone,” said Sarah White, of the disability charity Sense"

WhattheHhashappened · 03/08/2020 09:30

The charities are also calling on supermarket chains and public transport companies to make announcements reminding people not to assume that anyone not wearing a mask is breaking the rules.

They are doing. In the places I have been the loud speaker announcements to wear a mask have all been followed up with ‘be kind and understanding, not everyone can wear a mask/hidden disability’ messages.

HeIenaDove · 03/08/2020 17:07

Just spotted this on another thread

Local papers now going around the supermarkets and counting how many people not wearing masks and if they're wearing disabilities lanyards and basically passing judgement on if their non-masking is "acceptable".

Horrific. (Derby Telegraph and Notts Post are the two I've found so far up to this shit - but I suspect all those in that newspaper group (Reach PLC) will be running exactly the same shit

CaffiSaliMali · 04/08/2020 14:41

That's horrendous Helena.

Not everyone who is exempt will know about the disability lanyards, and not everyone who does know about them will want to wear one.

So now if we don't wear one we can expect to have our pictures plastered in local media? Fan fucking tastic.

I expect some of those newspapers are going to be challenged by people with and exemption who they have done this to.

HeIenaDove · 04/08/2020 16:13

I hope they get taken to court.

Xenia · 04/08/2020 19:45

I hope people don't start having to carry one (and I am against the mask laws in the first place anyway). The default ought to be you are free not to wear a mask but sadly that has changed in shops for some people (but of course loads are exempt). I was the only person in a mask yesterday in my local Tesco express so that cheered me up no end. May be the masks will just cease to be worn. It was admittedly a time when mostly only men in their work vans had popped into that shop which is also a garage and probably they are not so bothered rather than making human rights or disability rights points. it is all very complicated but hopefully will blow over soon.

mbosnz · 04/08/2020 19:48

I figure if someone isn't wearing a mask, they either have a reason (not my business), or they're a dick (still not my business, who died and made me mask police). If they got into my space, I'd be asking them to get back, but otherwise I just try to ensure a good distance between them and me.

Maskwoes · 05/08/2020 13:10

I have been asked to write an article about my experience that will be edited during two-way conversation until we're both happy and then published. The journalist has some clout too. This is an avenue I am definitely going to utilise, it's a very powerful tool.

Nothing from the hospital regarding my request for a meeting yet, mind...

SimplySteveRedux · 05/08/2020 13:45

It's ridiculous, DP wants us to go out for a quiet meal and a few drinks on Friday, and my levels of apprehension are growing day by day. I'm going to have to be a few drinks in before we leave at this rate!!!

EpidermolysisBullosa · 05/08/2020 14:48

@Maskwoes

I have been asked to write an article about my experience that will be edited during two-way conversation until we're both happy and then published. The journalist has some clout too. This is an avenue I am definitely going to utilise, it's a very powerful tool.

Nothing from the hospital regarding my request for a meeting yet, mind...

That's good, it seems from social media that quite a lot of people have had negative experiences sadly, so it's good to raise awareness of this more widely.
HeIenaDove · 05/08/2020 21:14

@Maskwoes thats good to hear

IAmFleshIAmBone · 06/08/2020 06:13

Thank you for this thread. I haven't left the house in 6 weeks, and even the thought of going into a shop is filling me with panic. I'm scared I won't cope with being challenged. My partner says he will be with me but still... This is all so damaging for so many people. I was appalled to read some of your experiences with the vile mask bullies, it's really really disturbing.

GetOffYourHighHorse · 06/08/2020 06:39

I don't agree with anyone being challenged aggressively abut mask wearing. That said, barring those with learning difficulties or dementia where it would cause distress it really is difficult to understand how a thin piece of fabric causes such problems and impedes breathing. If it did anyone with mild conditions would not be able to work in the NHS where they wear face masks routinely.

I'm sorry for anyone with psychological issues, either post abuse or other causes but there does seem so many using flimsy excuses. For example mild asthma that does not require daily meds and monitoring is not a reason not to wear a face cover.

No one likes wearing them, they are uncomfortable and unpleasant but for 20mins in a shop those that don't have major psychological issues shouldn't really struggle imo.

IAmFleshIAmBone · 06/08/2020 07:44

The thing is, whether you think someone 'should' struggle is totally irrelevant. You don't know people's medical history or mental health so it's really not your place to decide whose reasons are 'flimsy'.

GetOffYourHighHorse · 06/08/2020 11:08

'The thing is, whether you think someone 'should' struggle is totally irrelevant.'

True, but as it is a chat forum I thought I was allowed to express an opinion. I would never challenge anyone and as you say there will be a tiny percentage who do have extreme medical or psychological issues.

My point was there are also many jumping on this bandwagon that they can't breathe through them which is nonsense as HCPs would be dropping like flies. For example someone who was perhaps diagnosed with asthma as a child and hasn't used an inhaler for years should really get on with it and use a face cover. We want as few droplets circulating in the air as possible.

HeIenaDove · 07/08/2020 00:57

metro.co.uk/2020/07/27/shouted-not-wearing-face-mask-bus-exempt-13035084/

comments underneath are interesting too,