Should kids wear facemasks in school to reduce second wave and more school closures?

[947EliseChalotte]

Should kids wear masks in school in September when there are 30 in a class to reduce chances of second wave and avoid school shut down again?

@Kyanite literally everything in your last post was utter bollocks. HTH.

If it allows more children to return to school then yes

Child abuse stop being so fucking stupid really the drama of MN

I'm in Scotland and under 12's don't need to social distance, so would struggle to see in the light of that why face coverings would be required
@tigger1001 you are aware that 12 is t the school leaving age though, right? In a secondary school most of the pupils will be over 12.

Absolutely not.

@cardibach

I'm in Scotland and under 12's don't need to social distance, so would struggle to see in the light of that why face coverings would be required *@tigger1001* you are aware that 12 is t the school leaving age though, right? In a secondary school most of the pupils will be over 12.

Clearly I was referring to primary kids in that post....

Thanks for the links-I've had quick look.

www.statista.com/statistics/1107913/number-of-coronavirus-deaths-in-sweden-by-age-groups/

^^These are mortality statistics, not spread of infection in relevant age group. We already know children experience covid symptoms far less severely than adults and the mortality rate is far lower.

www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-britain-epidemiolo-idUSKBN22V1K1
From article: "There are hints that children are less infectious but it is not certain."

medicalxpress.com/news/2020-07-commentary-pediatrics-children-dont-transmit.html

"...that children infrequently transmit COVID-19 to each other or to adults and that many schools, provided they follow appropriate social distancing guidelines and take into account rates of transmission in their community"

www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-06-23/school-children-don-t-spread-coronavirus-french-study-shows

From article: "The data on kids has been contradictory so far, with some reports corroborating the Pasteur findings and at least one pointing the other way."
"And more studies on schools were needed because of the small number of cases they were able to study. They found that an estimated 41% of the children infected showed no symptoms, compared with about 10% of adults."

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/32513410/

"In summary, all the 455 contacts were excluded from SARS-CoV-2 infection and we conclude that the infectivity of some asymptomatic SARS-CoV-2 carriers might be weak."

^^Sample very small. Schools not even mentioned.

ieureka.blogs.bristol.ac.uk/2020/05/26/are-teachers-at-high-risk-of-death-from-covid19/

^^This applied to mortality of teachers rather than spread of infection although it does say that "current evidence, although inconclusive, also suggests that they may be less likely to transmit the virus than adults."

www.rcreader.com/commentary/masks-dont-work-covid-a-review-of-science-relevant-to-covide-19-social-policy
^Interesting. Says even N95 and all other respirator masks "do not work to prevent respiratory influenza-like illnesses, or respiratory illnesses believed to be transmitted by droplets and aerosol particles."

And yet, other studies say otherwise. For example:

www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(20)31142-9/fulltext

There are always going to be studies to support or refute a line of thinking.

I am horrified that some people want our kids masked. They have been through so much already through this lockdown and new abnormal. We need to repair the damage done to these tender young souls. Probability of contracting or spreading Covid is very low especially with good hygiene. On the other hand the psychological damage is very probable and very real. Please consider the long term.

hostelgirl, I'm sorry, but that's just not the case. The majority of children have been fine during this pandemic - it's not the Blitz, where their homes are bombed and they've been sent away to live with strangers, after all.
Children wearing masks can protect the others around them. Why wouldn't you want to promote that?
Probability of contracting or spreading Covid is very low especially with good hygiene.
We actually don't know that.

I'm genuinely horrified that people like hostelgirl74 are so selfish that they don't care about the health of other kids or their educators.

Facemasks are only useful worn for short periods. After about half an hour they are useless and damp. Home made masks have unproven efficacy anyway

2Rebecca Evidence please.

The picture of the effect of schools being open at the start and then reopening more widely over the past few weeks is clear in the graph in the community surveillance section. The reason why numbers of cases were so low (but they did exist) during keyworker childcare was purely because of small numbers of children attending and therefore easier to social distance, not to mention a huge focus on outdoor activities.

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachmentdata/file/899301/WeeklyyCOVID19SurveillanceeReportweekk_28.pdf

Shall I tell you what’s worse then this ridiculous poll, is a child being attacked by an ADULT whilst wearing her hidden disability lanyard. My daughter is 11 so doesn’t need to wear one anyway.

I was stood right there next to my daughter. I also had a young baby in the pram. And then she calls me out for being a bad parent!

The fear is creating monsters!
CHILDREN DO NOT NEED MASKS.

Uhm witchcraft. Have you seen how often we touch our faces and or masks. You don’t need evidence. It’s pretty bloody obvious. The same reason we only use gloves as single use in hospitals. I change my mask at work about 5 times a day. It isn’t rocket science. I don’t have to read a peer reviewed paper on to work out that a young fidgety kid wearing the same mask all day or even two masks in a day is grim.

You show me the evidence home made masks are effective especially after wearing one for half an hour. Medical masks have to be regularly changed (I'm a GP). There is hardly any evidence on home made masks and that which there is is of poor quality. Show me evidence that home made masks reduce transmission of SARS type viruses like Covid 19 if worn for long periods. There isn't any

You show me the evidence home made masks are effective especially after wearing one for half an hour. Medical masks have to be regularly changed (I'm a GP). There is hardly any evidence on home made masks and that which there is is of poor quality. Show me evidence that home made masks reduce transmission of SARS type viruses like Covid 19 if worn for long periods. There isn't any

Masks are being recommended for short term use in enclosed spaces like public transport and shops as theoretically they may reduce transmission of the virus by the wearer. They only work if dry.

It is pointless wearing your mask outside walking to the shop as by the time you get to the enclosed space of the shop the protective effect of the mask for others will be minimal

Ok so logically why are mask wearing countries doing so much better?
I know their government is probably better but china managed to get it under control without a real wave as did other countries.
The number of people walking about coughing (and sneezing) several per day just past my house.
Kids will be sent to school with coughs and temperatures.
The ons data showed as many kids infected as adults as a % and more than some percentages.
Tbh its a worse spread too if they are not ill they will not be at home.
Oz has also pinned outbreaks to schools. They said it's just because of
Lack of testing
Closures

I believe children couldnt be tested until about june. But KW families could earlier. How would you know when to test if they arent really ill though. It is the random testing that shows the scope of infection.

Main issue is 1/4 tests false negative so bubbles will continue.
Also i think they are going to wait for 2 positives.
There would easily be 10x the connections in schools in sept so maybe 550 outbreaks a week.

But anyway these 55 outbreaks a week could really do with clarification is it
t-t or t-s or s-s. And obviously its a minimum of 2 but what are the actual numbers.
That nursery in MK there was a lot. In oz i think 170 infected.
Logically many primary teachers are stuck in a small room in a small space with the ta too.

I think they are doing a study at a couple of schools.

The kids with the pims had had covid but even with say family members known to have had it the families didnt know the kids had had it.

Clearly I was referring to primary kids in that post
Well yes, @tigger1001
But everybody is. Nobody is talking about secondary schools where the pupils are essentially adult and it’s impossible to have bubbles. Nobody wants to think about us. The issues involved in keeping secondaries safe are such that people don’t want to think about it.

I'm for masks, personally, especially from secondary school (and even upper primary) but I don't feel they are effective in isolation. Handwashing, sanitizing work areas/handles etc, and social distancing all factor in. Naturally, the latter will be harder to do when schools are back in en masse, which is why there is a case for masks.

You show me the evidence home made masks are effective especially after wearing one for half an hour.

No mask is foolproof, especially if worn incorrectly and for long periods and there are always going to the studies to support or refute an assertion. Some below in support of cloth masks, especially in areas of widespread contagion (obviously medical grade is best!). Length of time in mask is undefined.
It seems to me that a mask, even a fabric one, is better than nothing!

files.fast.ai/papers/masks_lit_review.pdf

wwwnc.cdc.gov/eid/article/26/10/20-0948_article

www.ucsf.edu/news/2020/06/417906/still-confused-about-masks-heres-science-behind-how-face-masks-prevent

www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.04.17.20069567v2.full.pdf

www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(20)31142-9/fulltext

med.stanford.edu/news/all-news/2020/06/stanford-scientists-contribute-to-who-mask-guidelines.html

www.who.int/emergencies/diseases/novel-coronavirus-2019/question-and-answers-hub/q-a-detail/q-a-on-covid-19-and-masks

Yes, SEN who just can’t wear one aside.
Because teachers and their families matter too.

My late father had a mask during the war born in 1935, you never forget the smell or the experience he said it was traumatic for children then. He would go nuts if still alive to think his great grand children had to wear them.

Absolutely not. My son wears glasses. Glasses get steamed up a lot, particularly if masks don't fit well which is a real problem for children - it's really hard to get masks to fit. Stupid idea for so many reasons. If there are concerns get each child a desk and put a screen around it

Or have a portable screen on wheels that the child can trundle around with them.
Or - wear a mask.