Should kids wear facemasks in school to reduce second wave and more school closures?

[947EliseChalotte]

Should kids wear masks in school in September when there are 30 in a class to reduce chances of second wave and avoid school shut down again?

@barbie222 there is evidence. I've posted it above.

Key word there is "documented". But if you want to give me WHOs number I'll pass it on.

Calculating mental harm from children wearing masks is unknowable in the UK at present.
Masks depriving children of 'fresh air and oxygen' is no different to masks depriving adults of the same and we know this isn't the case by swathes of healthcare workers who do wear 'muzzles' for hours a day.
Added to which, the countries where children do wear masks at school, China, for instance, and parts of Japan, don't seem to have any issues (polities aside) in this regard unless someone knows otherwise.

@porcupineinwaiting i have presented evidence that child to adult transmission is rare. Could you show me the evidence that it is not?

Here it is again

t.co/mmIlfpsAzW?amp=1

Allibee83

Have you read the studies you posted? I have looked at a few. I don't think their conclusions match your claims.

@porcupineinwaiting I've showed you the evidence multiple times. Why do you not want to read it?

@walksen you've flown through those rather quickly.

@AllieBee83 the studies you mention aren't reassuring? They reiterate that although children have less severe outcomes, their likelihood of contracting and spreading the disease seem to be either the same as adults, slightly less or not known. It isn't quite "children don't spread it" and staff / parents are right to do their own reading up.

@AllieBee83 I'm aware of the studies. They don't show what you think they show. Children being often asymptomatic and so not being the main vectors of cv is not the same as them not being able to spread it. Neighbours son wasnt asymptomatic, he had temperature, diarrhoea and cough. He was also too young to be tested (at the time) so diagnosis wasnt made til his mum and dad got sick a week later. So "officially" he doesnt exist as an example of child- adult transmission . The testing didnt allow it.

That is true, but i still seem to have a better grasp of what it says than you do.

We allow me to post the executive summary the experts produced themselves

". The role of children in passing the disease to others is unknown, in particular given unknown numbers of asymptomatic cases. Notably, the China/WHO joint commission could not recall episodes during contact tracing where transmission occurred from a child to an adult. Studies of multiple family clusters have revealed children were unlikely to be the index case, in Guangzhou, China, Israel, the USA, Switzerland and internationally. Limited data on positive cases in schools have not demonstrated significant transmission, except within adolescent populations. Studies of younger children in schools have found low rates of transmission, but with very low case numbers.

This does not say transmission from children does not happen. It says children are less likely to pass it on particularly younger ones, cases have occurred at a lower rate compared to adults and it does seem to spread more readily in adolescent children. Thus the policy of excluding under 11's seems sensible. It is also consistent with empirical data and events in Israel where schools initially opened to bubbles of 30 for younger pupils with no apparent effect but when opened to all schools resulted in significant cases a month later. Around half of cases were traced to schools.

At the moment the transmission from children is said to be unknown , which is quite different from it doesn't happen. I am not sure how you prove adults don't catch it from children unless that child is the adults not social contact.

For what it's worth I don't think masks will help anyone at primary and only given certain conditions in secondary will they be useful enough to outweigh the detrimental effect they'll have on teaching and learning. I also believe as a teacher there is a risk to my health but it needs to be kept in proportion and balanced with the children's right to learn effectively.

What I'm not on board with is misrepresenting the science to downplay risk. That won't get schools any bigger of a slice of the pie.

Interesting to see that when documented cases do not support transmission the lunatic fringe decides to cite undocumented ones. Let hope that people with that logic are not teaching our children. Nd the scandalous threat strikes will backfire big time. People have lost patience be sympathy with that line. Good teachers won't resign and sadly the rubbishy one can't as there re no jobs they would be able to get in the current job market.

Yes. Definitely.

We won't do it though. Our government seems to think we are different and the virus somehow treats us differently.

As per NHS data to date 18 children under the age of 19 have died of COVID-19 and 15 of those had serious co-morbidities. Other studies have shown that children do not spread the virus and countries where schools have been open throughout the pandemic have not seen an increase in deaths of children or teachers.

So why should all children need to wear masks for 6 hours a day? It is utter madness and cruel - we are walking into a dystopian nightmare. I can't believe any parent would want this for their children, to me it is child abuse

It's not just about deaths though is it, many people seem to be suffering long term effects from this virus, there are quite a few people on MN who are still suffering months after they contracted the virus. And they weren't sick enough to go to hospital, and many of them were fit and healthy beforehand.

to me it is child abuse then I would have to conclude you don’t understand what “child abuse” is.

@Lifeisabeach09

Calculating mental harm from children wearing masks is unknowable in the UK at present. Masks depriving children of 'fresh air and oxygen' is no different to masks depriving adults of the same and we know this isn't the case by swathes of healthcare workers who do wear 'muzzles' for hours a day. Added to which, the countries where children do wear masks at school, China, for instance, and parts of Japan, don't seem to have any issues (polities aside) in this regard unless someone knows otherwise.

Lifeisabeach09 I wouldn't want to live in a country like China, would you? Do you know that there is a social credit system (red, amber, green) in place there and people who are not 'green' cannot drive etc? Is this really what we want to aspire to? I'd prefer to live in a free country.

Other studies have shown that children do not spread the virus and countries where schools have been open throughout the pandemic have not seen an increase in deaths of children or teachers.

What studies are these?

As PP have said, it's not about child, or even teacher, mortality (as this is low), it's about the spread of infection. Schools MIGHT well be virile incubators. Let's see come winter when viruses like the cold, flu, norovirus, etc, increase if covid will do the same. Likely, given the same factors.

@ineedaholidaynow

It's not just about deaths though is it, many people seem to be suffering long term effects from this virus, there are quite a few people on MN who are still suffering months after they contracted the virus. And they weren't sick enough to go to hospital, and many of them were fit and healthy beforehand.

Well where are the figures that show how many people exactly have suffered after contracting the virus? Can you post a link? I'd like to go by actual reported figures before we force this upon every child.

We need to know exactly where and how COVID-19 is spread, and so far the data shows it is not spread in schools

@Houseonthehill46, funnily enough, I spent two months in China teaching English 15 years ago. Yes, I would live there as there is more to a country than just its political system.

As for the green-amber-red warning system, whilst some measures are extreme and I don't agree with, mandatory mask wearing in schools is not one of them. I admire the Chinese for cracking down hard on this virus-not fumbling through it the way the Brits did. And although I don't fully trust their reported infection and death rates, I have no doubt they have fared better than, say, the most democratic of countries.
#youcan'tvotewhenyou'redead

@Lifeisabeach09

Other studies have shown that children do not spread the virus and countries where schools have been open throughout the pandemic have not seen an increase in deaths of children or teachers.

What studies are these?

As PP have said, it's not about child, or even teacher, mortality (as this is low), it's about the spread of infection. Schools MIGHT well be virile incubators. Let's see come winter when viruses like the cold, flu, norovirus, etc, increase if covid will do the same. Likely, given the same factors.

Here are some relevant studies to look at:

www.statista.com/statistics/1107913/number-of-coronavirus-deaths-in-sweden-by-age-groups/

www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-britain-epidemiolo-idUSKBN22V1K1

medicalxpress.com/news/2020-07-commentary-pediatrics-children-dont-transmit.html

www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-06-23/school-children-don-t-spread-coronavirus-french-study-shows

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/32513410/

ieureka.blogs.bristol.ac.uk/2020/05/26/are-teachers-at-high-risk-of-death-from-covid19/

www.rcreader.com/commentary/masks-dont-work-covid-a-review-of-science-relevant-to-covide-19-social-policy

Patrick Vallance has just stated that teachers are more at risk from other adults than from children and masks would not be recommended for use indoors all day or for children.

I am so upset by seeing parents putting masks on their children, this is child abuse for so many reasons. Children very, very rarely catch Covid and they do not spread it. Stop harming your child's physical, mental and emotional development...right now!

It be great if they could but we seems to forget that these are kids. Many with special needs or breathing problems and sensory issues. My asd little boy would definitely not keep it on, and when kids are non verbal you can't just tell them to keep it on. Some kids it will make them worry, and they will panick having to keep them on. Can you realky see a nursery little one being able to keep a mask on?

@Kyanite

I am so upset by seeing parents putting masks on their children, this is child abuse for so many reasons. Children very, very rarely catch Covid and they do not spread it. Stop harming your child's physical, mental and emotional development...right now!

We should be able to discuss this more rationally.