Are you being told to clean toilets at work?

[noblegiraffe]

If cleaning toilets wasn’t previously anywhere near your job description?

It’s being claimed on another thread that this is just part of the new normal, everyone is pitching in. I’m not convinced.

YABU - I’m being asked to clean toilets

YANBU - I’m not being asked to clean toilets

If you are, are you ok with it?

I work in retail and toilets vet sanitised every 3 hours although they are closed to customers
Right. May I ask why they're closed to customers? Is it because of infection risk?
And if so, why is the risk not the same in school toilets? And those unfortunate souls tasked with cleaning them should therefore have heavy-duty PPE?

@CallmeAngelina

I work in retail and toilets vet sanitised every 3 hours although they are closed to customers Right. May I ask why they're closed to customers? Is it because of infection risk? And if so, why is the risk not the same in school toilets? And those unfortunate souls tasked with cleaning them should therefore have heavy-duty PPE?

No idea, probably to avoid cross contamination, from customer to customer. (Head office plans risk assessment, i just do as I am told.) We can allow customers if they have a medical condition or in an emergency to use the disabled toilet but they need sanitised straight after use every time a customer uses it. We are provided with PPE to do this, gloves, masks and aprons. We also sanitise the high touch points (door handles, phones, computers, staff kettle, toaster microwave, fridge) every 3 hours as well.

Of course teachers can't clean toilets while teaching. They can do it at the end of the school day and throughout breaks and lunchtimes

So we don’t get lunch or a cup of (cold) tea mid-morning and after over 6 hours without food or a break, we can clean the toilets and, presumably, anything else that needs cleaning? And then mark, assess and prep?

Wow. Just wow.

@CallmeAngelina

And MrsNoah, how many patients are actually visiting the practice each day, at the moment? If it's anything like mine, they're mostly operating telephone consultations, and you can't actually visit the surgery unless an extreme circumstance. So would I be right in thinking that you are cleaning up after fewer people than your average school?

Ah, so now it's about the numbers? I thought before it was the principle that teachers were professionals and it's not in your job description?

And you are out of date - primary care has now resumed much routine care. And many of our service users have diarrhoea, are incontinent or throw up. The toilets can be grim. We have always cleaned them during the day if need be.

I'm not particularly advocating that teachers should clean toilets- I'd hope most schools could find an alternative. But the idea that it's a massive slight on your professionalism even to be asked is ludicrous.

@CallmeAngelina

And MrsNoah, how many patients are actually visiting the practice each day, at the moment? If it's anything like mine, they're mostly operating telephone consultations, and you can't actually visit the surgery unless an extreme circumstance. So would I be right in thinking that you are cleaning up after fewer people than your average school?

Ah, so now it's about the numbers? I thought before it was the principle that teachers were professionals and it's not in your job description?

And you are out of date - primary care has now resumed much routine care. And many of our service users have diarrhoea, are incontinent or throw up. The toilets can be grim. We have always cleaned them during the day if need be.

I'm not particularly advocating that teachers should clean toilets- I'd hope most schools could find an alternative. But the idea that it's a massive slight on your professionalism even to be asked is ludicrous.

@noblegiraffe

Who else is going to do it?

Someone from a GP surgery upthread said they’d hired an extra cleaner and upped the hours of their current one.

In our school budget constrictions mean our cleaners have had their hours cut! We cannot afford the cleaners which is why TAs and office staff are being asked to clean.....

@noblegiraffe

Where on earth are the the government going to find the money to fund tens of thousands of extra cleaners? The money is simply not available.

Supposing that a magic money tree were found, any extra funding that is available would be far better spent on teaching and learning.

Teachers will have to do their part in ensuring that schools can open by cleaning the toilets on a rota basis either before and after school or at break and lunch times.

I think we have established that the martyr narrative in the UK sees NHS staff and school staff performing duties outside of contract such as cleaning.

Perhaps people could just answer the original question and answer the poll in the way it is asked.

I would expect to find that nurses (admittedly not so much doctors) and other hospital and clinic staff were doing cleaning because a) I have seen that happening in hospital before anyway and b) they are another public sector job who tend to be shat on (pun intended) .

All teachers and TAs are being told to clean the toilets throughout the day. As well as tables, chairs, door handles etc
We have no break and have to eat lunch with the children. I get 2x 10 min slots to wee myself (in a toilet I’ve cleaned myself before and after).
My own house looks like a shit tip as I am sooooo over the cleaning/teaching/babysitting dramas of the day and I still have online work to mark and set for the kids not attending. I’m exhausted.

Ah, so now it's about the numbers?
Well, numbers are relevant, surely. Because with every additional person using the facility, the potential risk is increased. As evidenced by the fact that many shops have their facilities closed, except in emergencies.
But yes, it is also about the fact that I am a teacher, not a cleaner. Nor do I have the time, the opportunity or the protective gear to do it.

Teachers will have to do their part in ensuring that schools can open by cleaning the toilets on a rota basis either before and after school or at break and lunch times.

Nope. Not happening.

As I said before fishy, they are separate budgets. Also, you take a teacher away from a classroom, and you greatly impact upon teaching and learning.

People have mentioned COSHH to you and the training, and the hazmat training and so on and you will have none of it.

@FishyDuck

Teachers will have to do their part in ensuring that schools can open by cleaning the toilets on a rota basis either before and after school or at break and lunch times.

When?

Teachers have to be in class 8 to 4 for breakfast and after school club. We are with the children at break and lunch.

Add in planning,prepping,marking etc in September (slightly less load now as we've been in including half term and Easter Holidays so a lot of the admin and organisational work is done). when exactly are teachers supposed to do it?

After and before school is pointless anyways, as the cleaners do it after school every day and nobody uses them until the morning.

Not to mention the fact that most of us have been told we are not allowed to wear PPE in our school.

However, I have not been asked to clean toilets. For this relief much thanks (again, pun intended).

MrsNoah the fact that you, a senior doctor, are spending a portion of your day cleaning shitty toilets should be a point of scandal, not a point of pride.

That teachers and TAs are being asked to do the same is also outrageous.

How have we got to the point where the public sector is so underfunded that skilled people who are desperately needed to be doing their actual job are clearing up shit instead, and so under-appreciated that people don’t see a problem with that?

I get 2x 10 min slots to wee myself

That may well be literal, the day you have described!!

[quote FishyDuck]@noblegiraffe

Where on earth are the the government going to find the money to fund tens of thousands of extra cleaners? The money is simply not available.

Supposing that a magic money tree were found, any extra funding that is available would be far better spent on teaching and learning.

Teachers will have to do their part in ensuring that schools can open by cleaning the toilets on a rota basis either before and after school or at break and lunch times.[/quote]
Still waiting for you to say what part of a teacher's routine work they drop to do the cleaning. Your silence speaks volumes.

Stop stirring. Your ignorance is embarrassing.

It shouldn't be a choice @CallmeAngelina.

Every effort should be made to gain buy in from staff, but I suspect the government may need to implement a new contract for teachers beginning in September, that includes additional cleaning as part of the new normal.

Remember that teachers can already be instructed to carry out any instruction from the headteacher.

[quote FishyDuck]@noblegiraffe

Where on earth are the the government going to find the money to fund tens of thousands of extra cleaners? The money is simply not available.

Supposing that a magic money tree were found, any extra funding that is available would be far better spent on teaching and learning.

Teachers will have to do their part in ensuring that schools can open by cleaning the toilets on a rota basis either before and after school or at break and lunch times.[/quote]
Still waiting for you to say what part of a teacher's routine work they drop to do the cleaning. Your silence speaks volumes.

Stop stirring. Your ignorance is embarrassing.

@DomDoesWotHeWants

It’s not about dropping anything. Teachers will simply have to extend their day past 3.15 to fit in the additional cleaning.

I suspect many will have directed tone to make up after the last few months in any event!

I suspect many will have directed tone to make up after the last few months in any event!

Nope, it resets in September.

Gave your agenda away good and proper there.

It shouldn't be a choice @CallmeAngelina.

Well, you're correct in a way - it isn't a choice because it won't be/isn't happening. It won't become a requirement, and the Unions will defend us to the hilt on it.

And I (and probably many others) would walk out then and there the minute anyone tried to "instruct" me to do so.

Any reasonable instruction.

I suspect there would be some legal debate over what constitutes reasonable.

FishyDuck You are being a goady fucker and talking complete shit. Do stop. You're embarrassing yourself.