To think that we are being forced into a cashless society?

[rockingthelook]

My parents really don't like to use debit cards, especially the contactless ones, however , due to C19 this seems to be the way forward? They like to take their money from the bank and use the cash rather than cards, really don't want to bank or pay for anything online because they don't trust it, but everything seems to be geared towards contactless. They had a walk today and wanted to buy a cup of tea from a takeaway cafe and couldn't, not only because the place wouldn't take cash, but the cards had to be contactless, and their cards aren't (they asked not to have this feature as frightened of them being stolen and used) It seems to be that the banks etc are using the C19 situation to force things through, my mum was even told by the cashier in the bank the other day to use the cash machine in the bank rather than get the cash over the counter because of the 'risks', fgs it's THEIR money, can't believe Age Concern/UK aren't all over this!

That's what all governments want but resist it people! They will control everything in your life by technology if this should ever happen, it is big brother x100.

Keep using cash, I reckon we are safe for another 40-50 years but people need to wake up to this 'control' and sharp!

Remember, your rights and freedoms are being eroded bit by bit and when they are gone, they are gone for good!

My main bank card doesn’t have contactless, it’s simply not a feature. I have never during this whole thing been told I can’t use it?

What I don't understand is how the elderly can say they can't manage contactless payments. Ok, I understand elderly people might not be able to manage the internet or Zoom or smartphones. Contactless payment is just a plastic card you wave at the reader though. It's easier than cash. If people worry about what they're spending just save receipts or add up as you go along. They must do this in the supermarket if you only go in with cash so they don't spend more than they have anyway.

Moved to Australia From IK 8 years ago and was really surprised at how much everyone paid cash for everything - even expensive things - until C19. Had a $50 note in my wallet fir weeks. Everyone using tap cards and their phones now. So much easier and cleaner

We analysed this 20 years ago in my sociology class - the conclusion was that eventually cash would cease to exist in paper form, and would become more intangible in nature, taking the form of numbers on a screen.

On the plus side, no more 'rounding up' to the nearest 5 cents.

Downside - less security, and less control.

Adverts during Covid

Every advert on TV especially on channels watched by older people I think are playing on people to give money to charities. I know charities have suffered during the pandemic, but I shudder to think how many people living alone (especially the elderly ) might feel pressured into giving more to charity than they can afford. Also, so many adverts selling insurance, security systems, even beds, begin with ‘ during these difficult times.....’, or ‘It’s even more important now to ..’
I think adverts should not use the fear of the future with the virus to market products which they should sell on the merit of the thing itself. It’s almost every product using these terms.
‘ in these difficult times ... you need this ( product ) more than ever !

I am sick of it !

This is really about your parents not accepting change as a PP said.

Cash, particularly coins, have always been dirty and infection risk. Now more so. Bigger risk for cashiers particularly. Can your parents think about the cashiers in these places rather than about their own lack of ability to change? I’m sure you’ll also find that the card machines can also take the cards and not just contactless. The cashier may not have known that. Tell your parents to simply use their keys to push the numbers for their pin code, they not have to physically touch the card reader.

As for using the cash machine at the bank, it was that way prior to covid around here. Very very little done with a cashier over the counter, everyone pushed to use the machines or on line. This had to do with cost savings by the bank, not covid. It’s not a conspiracy to go cashless.

I don't mind just using cards, I live in the Netherlands and it has been like that for a while, but I do mind being charged 6 Euros by ING bank every time I deposit cash in my account. Plus if you lose your card, its handy being able to have cash as an option.

All those saying that the Government want this to happen so that they can spy on and control everything anyone does anywhere ever - there are 66 million-odd people in this country but yeah, they will magically have so much capacity that a mysterious operative in an anonymous office building on an identikit trading estate somewhere will be making a careful note that Becky Bloggs of 85 The Street, Anytown has bought a skinny mochalattefuckaccino from Starbucks 3 times this week. Fuck the Man, right?

@ScrommidgeClaryAndSpunt, I think you are being wilfully naive if you don't think our data will be sold on. It is already, just search for something and then see how many pop-up ads you get.

We are decorating.£10k in cash got a cheaper price, so cash alive and well for tax avoidance in the UK

We had that for £2500 of scaffolding. People seem to think that the "cash in hand" tax free discounts are only for small jobs, i.e. £50 for your local plumber, but it's a LOT worse than that. Huge amounts of tax is being defrauded in the black economy. It's not just the tax on profits either that isn't being paid - they've not got their workers on the books either so that's a shed load of PAYE/NIC being evaded too!

@starfishmummy

Inuse my card a lot, but I have an adult son with learning disabilities and deliberately got him an account that doesnt have the option of a debit card. I act for him on financial matters and get cash out for him for the occasions he needs it. A card would be lost in five minutes or as he thinks everyone is his friend, he would give someone his card and probably his pin number too. At least with cash he can only lose/spend/be conned out of the amount he has on him!

Plenty of options for getting prepaid cards so that you could just do a transfer of a small amount on to his card when he goes out. Quicker and easier than getting cash out of a machine for him.

[quote NannyOggsWhiskyStash]@ScrommidgeClaryAndSpunt, I think you are being wilfully naive if you don't think our data will be sold on. It is already, just search for something and then see how many pop-up ads you get.[/quote]
I take it you have given up the internet then? Or is it just selective campaigning without truly understanding the benefits and concern.

Interesting that so many here are delighted that small scale tax avoidance may be effected by a cashless society. What about the tax avoidance we should really be concerned about (Amazon, Starbucks etc.) that has nothing to do with whether a business accepts cash or not? I guess that discussion has less opportunity for moralising over the individual actions/preferences of others though.

I disagree. I work in a food shop ( and have done all throughout the last few months) and I don't want your cash. I don't want to have to touch it, I hated having to touch cash since before I'd even heard of Covid. It's very unhygienic. It annoys me the amount of elderly people who still like to use it. If you have elderly parents you need to teach them how to use contactless facilities and remind them it's because of all the people like me who shouldn't have to touch it just because people are scared of technology, when let's face it, it's the way of the future like it or not.

I can understand people not wanting to touch cash at the moment - but really, all these posts about how "unhygienic" cash is and how people hate touching it I've handled cash in my job for decades, it's never bothered me and I very much doubt I ever caught anything from it. How do you think people managed decades ago?

@ScrommidgeClaryAndSpunt

All those saying that the Government want this to happen so that they can spy on and control everything anyone does anywhere ever - there are 66 million-odd people in this country but yeah, they will magically have so much capacity that a mysterious operative in an anonymous office building on an identikit trading estate somewhere will be making a careful note that Becky Bloggs of 85 The Street, Anytown has bought a skinny mochalattefuckaccino from Starbucks 3 times this week. Fuck the Man, right?

Except you don’t need people to analyse it. It won’t take long before they are able to identify, for example, all the people who have travelled outside their home area when they were supposed to be jobseeking and automatically sanction them. Probably a lot of people will be in favour of that, too. It’s not the daft picture you painted.

Interesting that so many here are delighted that small scale tax avoidance may be effected by a cashless society. What about the tax avoidance we should really be concerned about (Amazon, Starbucks etc.) that has nothing to do with whether a business accepts cash or not

I also noticed this. A large proportion of MN think anyone paying, or accepting cash is avoiding tax. It's quite possible to pay with and receive cash as a legitimate transaction. Although I'm sceptical of places that only accept cash.
You could argue that Amazon and Starbucks are acting legally though, as they have just exploited some loophole that allows that.

Ther is an interesting post on fb about cancelling cash

HERES WHAT NO CASH ACTUALLY MEANS

A cashless society means no cash. Zero. It doesn’t mean mostly cashless and you can still use a ‘wee bit of cash here & there’. Cashless means fully digital, fully traceable, fully controlled. I think those who support a cashless society aren’t fully aware of what they are asking for. A cashless society means:

• If you are struggling with your mortgage on a particular month, you can’t do an odd job to get you through.

• Your child can’t go & help the local farmer to earn a bit of summer cash.

• No more cash slipped into the hands of a child as a good luck charm or from their grandparent when going on holidays.

• No more money in birthday cards.

• No more piggy banks for your child to collect pocket money & to learn about the value of earning.

• No more cash for a rainy day fund or for that something special you have been putting £20 a week away for.

• No more fivers on the side because your wages barely cover the bills or put food on the table.

• No more charity collections.

• No more selling bits & pieces from your home that you no longer want/need for a bit of cash in return.

• No more cash gifts from relatives or loved ones.

What a cashless society does guarantee:

• Banks have full control of every single penny you own.

• Every transaction you make is recorded.

• All your movements & actions are traceable.

• Access to your money can be blocked at the click of a button when/if banks need ‘clarification’ from you which will take about 3 weeks, a thousand questions answered & five thousand passwords.

• You will have no choice but to declare & be taxed on every pound in your possession.

• The government WILL decide what you can & cannot purchase.

• If your transactions are deemed in any way questionable, by those who create the questions, your money will be frozen, ‘for your own good’.

I could write lists for 5 days & still not finish explaining how utterly awful a cashless society would be, for everyone. Even for the goody two shoes who wouldn’t dream of not declaring £500.
Forget about cash being dirty. Stop being so easily led. Cash has been around for a very, very, very long time & it gives you control over how you trade with the world. It gives you independence. I heard a story where a man supposedly contracted Covid because of a £20 note he had handled. There is the same chance of Covid being on a card as being on cash. If you cannot see how utterly ridiculous this assumption is then there is little hope.

If you are a customer, pay with cash. If you are a shop owner, remove those ridiculous signs that ask people to pay by card. Cash is a legal tender, it is our right to pay with cash. Banks are making it increasingly difficult to lodge cash & that has nothing to do with a virus, nor has this ‘dirty money’ trend.

Please open your eyes. Please stop believing everything you are being told. Almost every single topic in today’s world is tainted with corruption & hidden agendas. Please stop telling me & others like me that we are what’s wrong with the world when you hail the most corrupt members of society as your heroes. Politics & greed is what is wrong with the world; not those who are trying to alert you to the reality in which you are blindly floating along whilst being immobilised by irrational fear. Fear created to keep you doing & believing in exactly what you are complacently doing.

Pay with cash & please say no to a cashless society while you still have the choice.

Copy and Pasted - keep sharing.

Remember Handmaids tale, I know it was fiction but still

A lot of small businesses don't take cards because historically charges have been high, especially if your average transaction spend is low and people were more happy to pay cash for such items, and even expect to, and you would be considered to be a bit of a twat to try and pay for a transaction of under around a fiver on a card.

A PP above quotes 69 p for debit card transactions and 2.5% for credit card transactions. Years ago DP ran a shop for a while and the charges were similar. Plus you have to pay around £30 a month to rent the machine and further charges for the money to be paid into your business bank account.

Imagine if you run a newsagent, takeaway or bar, where many transactions are for things costing under £1, and nearly all spending being under £10. In a lot of cases, someone paying by debit card would mean that you earn absolutely nothing from that transaction and even if you did, the card provider has taken a lot of your profit. A lot of the 'I use my card for everything and think that I should be able to use it everywhere' people are probably blissfully unaware of the economics of running a small business.

In addition, these types of shops will buy a lot at the cash and carry, so have a way of legitimately spending a lot of their cash, without needing to put it in the bank and pay the bank to do so, so the cost of dealing with cash is further reduced. Of course some people won't declare everything they earn, but many will.

It's now changed a lot and you can buy a terminal for under £100 and pay a percentage on each transaction with no minimum, and I believe that contactless might even be free, plus you've got more people wanting to pay by card, so probably some shops do need to catch up, and change their provider. But the systems need to be reliable, card machines do go down, which could affect takings when no-one has any cash any more.

On the tax avoidance issue, many of our customers used to want to pay for repairs cash as they thought they would get it cheaper, whilst yes some businesses would do this, we would not.
Many would be all wink wink nod nod i'll pay cash and dont need a receipt, we were like ok pay how you like, the job is still being invoiced we just wont give you a copy and your still paying the same price. We would just humour them. Why should we risk getting done. They always forget that if they wanted the warranty on the work they would need the paperwork, we had a few who needed to claim on warranty and were relieved that we hadnt dealt with it as a tax avoiding cash job and have subsequently never asked again.
cash doesnt equate to dodgy dealings and we would just say no, why should we?

* No more money in birthday cards.
(but you could send a gift card or prepay card)
No more cash for a rainy day fund or for that something special you have been putting £20 a week away for.
(There are lots of savings accounts that are easy to set up - eg save the change. My DH has a direct debit from his current account each month to his alleged savings account)
* No more charity collections.
(A lot of charities rely on DD and chuggers are often tasked with signing up direct debits.i donate to a small charity. They call me monthly and ask if I want to be part of a lottery or make a donation and I do it over the phone. I'm not tied in to it. Also you can make donations via text to many charities)

No more selling bits & pieces from your home that you no longer want/need for a bit of cash in return.
(Ebay, depop and fb all allow selling using paypal)

No more cash gifts from relatives or loved ones.
(They could do a bank transfer)

I appreciate there are some instances where cash is useful , and not everyone is comfortable with, or able to do online banking. I still feel that there is a place for both but a blanket statement saying you cant sell bits and pieces to raise some cash is ridiculous when stuff like ebay and depop do just that without neccessarily using cash, or no more gifts from family.

No I agree but it is good to have the option of both.

My dh often gives my grown up dds some cash when he sees them - something tangible about cash