DP still wants to go on holiday.

[CornflakesForDinner]

Hello,

I just need to figure out if I'm being unreasonable and how best to deal with the situation.

We booked flights to stay at a friends villa in Spain for just under 2 weeks in summer holidays.

In January, we booked and paid for flights and car hire for DP, 2 children and I. The friend is not charging us for staying at the villa, which he has very kindly let us stay at before without taking any payment.

I didn't really say anything about the holiday to my DP as I would wait and see what the Covid situation is like nearer to the time.

We are due to fly out in 3 weeks and I would rather not go as I don't want to take any risks and encounter any health issues abroad.

I would rather spend the summer holidays staying with family we have not seen for so long.

When I mentioned my concerns to DP he said 'well I need a break and I'll take the kids with me'

I knew he would say the bit about needing a break but I honestly do not want him taking the kids.

Can he take the kids to Spain without my permission? Will he even be asked at the airport or is it for international flights?

Do you think staying in UK is right thing to do?

Thank you for reading x

Well contrary to everyone else's answers, yes technically he does need your permission as you'd need his. However are you going to go to court to prevent your partner/dc dad taking them if he decides he's going anyway (then if court refuses to grant that which is likely as he's not a risk for not returning them, he can still go, their decision over rules yours) as they wont stop him and refuse travel at the airport. That wouldn't do your relationship any favours I imagine.

@AgentProvocateur

Risk of dying in a car crash is 1 in 103.

Bullshit. I wish people would engage their brain before regurgitating shite they’ve read elsewhere or overheard in a pub.

I think what that poster meant was “risk of him dying from COVID-19 is 0.03% if he catches the virus (so for his age group 0.03% of people who are diagnosed with the virus die), and risk of dying in a car crash if he has a car crash is 1 in 103”. In other words, the statistics are based on the assumption that the event has happened, not that 1 in 103 of the whole population will die in a car crash but 1 in 103 of all people involved in car crashes will die.

www.nsc.org/work-safety/tools-resources/injury-facts/chart

@BritWifeinUSA, apologies. That makes more sense.

Do yo have travel insurance which will cover anything to do with Covid (i.e. Bought before mid March i think it is) a localised lock down over there (which are happening) meaning they can't get home is, for me, the higher risk than actually catching it & being seriously ill.
If you haven't got insurance i wouldn't even consider it but I wouldn't go on holiday without it anyway

[quote AgentProvocateur]@BritWifeinUSA, apologies. That makes more sense.[/quote]
But it doesn't make sense. That's like saying 50% of people will die in a plane crash without specifying 'of those in a plane crash'.

I think that overseas travel for non-crucial reasons atm is crazily irresponsible.

[quote AgentProvocateur]@BritWifeinUSA, apologies. That makes more sense.[/quote]
It makes more sense but it’s not useful information by itself. You’re far, far more likely to get Covid than to be involved in a car crash.

I’m a bit disheartened that the majority of posters are only thinking about whether the risk to you is worth it. Personally, I wouldn’t avoid travel for my own sake as I’m not hugely worried about catching it, but I wouldn’t do it because it really increases the spread in the population - like all the other things we’ve given up doing over the last few months. The second wave is likely to be coming and the more people travel, the harder it is likely to hit. This means more death, more school closure, more economic misery. How can a summer holiday be more important than that?

Also, people are talking crap about him not needing your permission to take the kids. You cannot take children out of the country without the permission of everyone who has parental responsibility for them. When kids are kidnapped and taken out of the country against a parent’s will it’s usually by the other parent and it’s not legal. Although in practice he’s unlikely to be asked on a flight to Spain.

You say the alternative option is staying with family. Are they elderly? That sounds like a greater risk to me than the holiday as you will be in close proximity for longer and infection rates are higher in the UK than in Spain.

Is it anywhere near the parts of Spain which have and are going back into lock down? Because parts of Spain have much higher infection rates than the UK, contrary to what posters seem to believe. If so I wouldn't go. I would agree to him taking the children.

If nowhere near, then I'd decide the day before based on the infection rate.

We're booked to go to Menorca in August and I must say I'd be very annoyed if my DH decided he didn't think it was safe and that none of us could go.

I don't think your fear is founded massively in actual facts, more perceived risk so it's going to be very frustrating for him.

We cancelled a trip to Majorca in August not because we're worried about getting Covid - think we've had it already- but because of all the factors outside our control. For example if there was a track and trace call, then I don't think any insurance would pay out, or if the area you're visiting goes into local lockdown then - at the very least - you'd end up having to buy new flights home.

DH was keener than I was to go, so I said to him to visit his friend abroad, that way it's just one flight cost that's being risked, and we booked a UK break instead.

I would go of it was a friends villa rather than a hotel. You can do a big shop when you get there so you have enough food for breakfast and snacks and then eat out for lunch or dinner. What I mean is that you can limit your contact with other people by staying in a villa compared to a hotel thereby lessening your risk. Also it wouldn't cost you much more, apart from rearranging flights and buying more food should anything happen whilst you are out there. I would go unless your kids are babies or toddlers.

I would not travel by plane at the moment. It’s not just the risk to you and your family. This is how the virus started to spread. International travel.

I'm going on Wednesday and am counting the hours now.

Your family is a low-rise group. He is going to a private villa. Your DC will be back at school mixing with lots of students and teachers soon. They'll probably be playing in playgrounds too next month.
Let your husband take the children. It's likely to be a long winter of small, localised lockdowns and more social distancing. Everybody stuck indoors together. Live while you can.

@SoloMummy

Phone up passport control and border agency to get a red flag put on their passports. If no court order, both parents on bc need to consent to the children going abroad. Not having consent is abduction. He may still go. But does not mean he can sulk and manipulate you into sending the children.

Regardless of those suggesting it's as safe as being in the UK, I agree with you. You wouldn't catch me on public transport, in an airport, etc let alone in another country that's having additional lockdowns.

Oh get a fucking grip. That is an awful suggestion to the OP telling her to contact border control and is very controlling. Why does the father have less rights over his children then their mother? He isn't going against guidelines.

Oh get a fucking grip. That is an awful suggestion to the OP telling her to contact border control and is very controlling. Why does the father have less rights over his children then their mother? He isn't going against guidelines.

Well he doesn't have less rights but he has the same rights to object to foreign travel as she's does, however there is a process needed to prevent it if there car be agreement and it's not particularly friendly. Usually something that happens between separated parents not those still together. As for the calling border control - doesn't work, exp tried all sorts. Called the police, passport office etc. Police were satisfied I wasn't kidnapping the children and took it no further and passport office don't take instructions from random callers - only judges

Since you're so risk averse OP I'd hope you also don't let your husband drive the children around in a car since their risk of dying in a car crash is much higher than their chance of dying from Covid. Same goes for drowning, lightening oh, and "trouser related accidents". Best put them all in a bubble and never let them leave the house! Although their chance of dying of boredom is probably still higher than their chances of dying from Covid...

Spain is on the list of countries who have to quarantine in Scotland. I’d be giving it a hard pass. If you don’t want the kids to go could you’lose’ the passports?

I'm in Spain. I'd come. The weather is good, you and the kids will be outside much of the time, it will do you all good getting tons of fresh air and Vit D. Most places are open. The beaches are so civilised with space between groups. Yes, there are a couple of new lockdowns but there was plenty of warning eg up in Cataluña. Most people are being sensible without taking it to extremes. The fearful are staying home, hiding, so it is much quieter everywhere than a normal summer.

I'd definitely come here long before I'd visit the UK.

I wouldn't want to go either or him take the kids. Just thinking about the air conditioning on the plane is more than enough for me!

I would let him go and take the children, they'll be upset and disappointed if they can't go and it's something to look forward to after all the crazy of the last few months.
I have a holiday to Majorca in Aug with my 4 year old and we're all very excited!
Masks are mandatory in the airport and on the plane, the air is filtered every 2-3 mins, masks mandatory in shops so as long as they all wash their hands/use hand gel regularly they should be fine, probably safer than going to the shops.
You can choose to stay home and have some peace and quiet

@user1486723488 You're wasting your breath - too many people are shit scared in the UK now. It's insane.

Can he take the kids to Spain without my permission not legally unless he has a court order.