To be uncomfortable about pet ownership?

[aw1459]

Firstly, I know that humans have kept pets for hundreds, if not thousands of years, they provide companionship, and are supposed to be h
good for people's mental health and to reduce stress, but.... A friend of mine has just bought an 8 week old kitten from Gumtree. I went round to see the friend yesterday and the kitten, whilst cute, just made me feel sad. It's still a tiny animal separate from its mum and siblings in a house with no other cats, or animals, just friend and her DH. If she had got a cat from a rescue centre, I would maybe be a bit more comfortable with the idea but this kitten has been bred for human pleasure and the way friend talked about having to get a particular breed because of the way it looks made the kitten purchase sound a bit like buying a designer handbag.

So over night I've been thinking a bit more about the morals /ethics of owning an animal because it gives you pleasure and about the human having control over the animal's life. I know cats may be slightly different because when older they might be able to come and go as they want but if you own a dog or a rabbit etc, the human controls most things the pet can / can't do. I've never really given this much thought before so am I being too moralistic about the pet ownership or are there others who agree with me?

I've just looked up what a catio is. How can that be good for the cat? They can see, hear, smell, feel the breeze from the outside world but can't get to it because they are caged in.

I have a dog. He is my friend. I don’t view him as a possession but as one of the family. His needs and wants get considered along with everyone else’s. I buy him food that he likes and control his access to it to keep him a healthy weight - as I do with my kid. If DD and I are having a treat dog gets one too. He has free access to house and garden and is currently sat with me on the sofa. We walk together twice a day and he picks the routes. Most walks are a lot off lead. He only has to wear a lead because otherwise he risks being run over (like a kid having to hold your hand). I think he’s a very happy and relaxed little guy. We just got home from a weekend in the caravan which he loves! I can’t imagine a better life for a dog than this 😁

"Isn't that the same reason people have children?"

"If that's not wrong, why is having pets wrong?

You look after children only until they have their own life. You don't keep them prisoner for your pleasure. You don't neuter/spay them for your convenience and you don't put them down when the vet's bills get too high.

@aw1459

I've just looked up what a catio is. How can that be good for the cat? They can see, hear, smell, feel the breeze from the outside world but can't get to it because they are caged in.

Well, it's far safer than letting them out to be potentially hit by a car - plus it means they can't hurt and kill endangered wildlife. In huge parts of the world, cats are indoor pets. The people who take them out do so on leads and harnesses - they're not just allowed to roam wherever like in the UK and Europe.

Indoor cats (or cats that are kept on their owners property) have much longer lives than those allowed out to roam. Personally I see too many cats killed or injured by cars to ever want to let mine out - especially as we have a 60mph road at the back of our property!

Maybe we could dedicate one city to cat owners and everyone with a cat moves there. Maybe Birmingham

@ShirleyPhallus
Birmingham seriously doesn't need any more cats! I was very glad when my NDN moved and took his 3 bird killing monsters with him. I don't get the projection of human quirks onto cats that some cat owners claim.
We did actually take in another neighbour's elderly cat when they got divorced. She was good at eating,sleeping and scratching and biting the poor vet,but not much else.

I do agree though that pet owning is morally problematic ,especially when people think they're a good idea for children,particularly rabbits,hamsters etc. So many of them lead miserable lives.
I love dogs but wouldn't be able to give one the full and varied life it would need.

He doesn’t look enslaved 😂

I agree also although I have 2 dogs. I find rabbits kept in small cages and birds in cages to be the most upsetting. I know my dogs have a good life, lots of attention and walks. My friend has 3 house cats that never go outside, she says they are happy but surely it's against all their instincts ? Cooped up in a small house, they can't be happy surely ?

the human controls most things the pet can / can't do.

Well they do to a great extent, in the same way parents control most things their children can/can't do.

I have a dog, she has a comfortable, settled life. She's well cared for and loved and is, as far as I can tell, a very happy animal.

I don't allow my dog to walk out in the street off the lead because she'd run into the road, in the same way that my children held my hand in the street for the same reason.

I've trained her not to run off and get lost in the park, in the same way I taught my children not to run off and get out of my sight and lost in the park or in the shops.

I control what she eats in order to keep her healthy, in the same way I made sure my children ate healthily.

She's nine years old now, if she'd lived as a free animal she would have died years ago, probably as a puppy, either from disease, starvation or being killed by a larger animal.

Every person who has grown up in a caring home has been controlled to a great extent by their parents until they are old enough to go it alone.

It's really no different from the way pets are treated, the difference being that my dog, as an adult, still needs help to keep her safe in certain situations e.g. crossing the road.

Cats and dogs for the most part lives charmed lives and dogs love to be a humans companion. Cats mainly suit themselves and come for a scratch or to be fed as they fancy. There needs to be more thought in to animals in cages though and kittens shouldn't leave their mums at 8 weeks. Your friend only needed to do some very basic research to discover that! A cat when old enough though will be happy enough to leave their mum and siblings

I have a dog. I see what you mean. Sometimes I go to take her for a walk and think it seems kind of barbaric in a way to lead an animal around with a chain around its neck.

Since I've had my puppy, who I use a harness with, I have suddenly found it odd looking at others being led around by their necks I have to say. Not sure many people use chains anymore though!

I brought a kitten from Gumtree...I’m clearly a massive shithouse for giving him a loving family home.

I’ve also just brought a puppy! Giving pets nice homes really is an awful thought 🙄

I got my puppy as no rescue would touch me. I live in a flat in a city, I work, I have 2 primary age dc and we don't have an enclosed garden. It happens we are rarely in my flat - my dc play out on all weathers although puppy doesn't. She goes out with them if it's dry but if it's raining she sits on the door step, she will go to my parents when I'm at work or if we have something indoors to do that she can't come to so will never need left alone, dc are very used to dogs. They also have a share in ponies so dpup gets enrichment of spending at least 3 days a week at the yard with us. We live right on a network of paths that lead to green areas, woods, beaches, rivers all in walking distance so she has a massively varied life. She has puppy friends we have nightly play dates with. A better life than many dogs who live in houses but only allowed in the kitchen, have a garden but rarely get walked yet none of that is taken in to consideration with rescues.

@BroomHandledMouser

I brought a kitten from Gumtree...I’m clearly a massive shithouse for giving him a loving family home.

I’ve also just brought a puppy! Giving pets nice homes really is an awful thought 🙄

'I bought a kitten from Gumtree' appeared next to a picture of a puppy - I was about to say 'you've been missold that 'kitten' ' then I saw the rest of your post.

@BroomHandledMouser

I brought a kitten from Gumtree...I’m clearly a massive shithouse for giving him a loving family home.

I’ve also just brought a puppy! Giving pets nice homes really is an awful thought 🙄

@BroomHandledMouser you’ve missed the point. Sure you are a great owner and your pets and great but the point is Gumtree is not regulated well enough as an animal selling platform. I could go on right now and get a kitten for free or next to nothing from someone who doesn’t care whether I’m doing to either use it for bait in dog fighting or not bother to get it vaccinated/neutered/ cared for properly.

Buying from platforms like Gumtree is funding the problem and should be illegal and one day in sure it will be.

I think pet dogs & cats tend to have a reasonable quality of life, thankfully science has started to improve way owners consider animals behavior & needs. Feral cats & dogs often suffer quite terribly just from parasites & disease's along with increased risk of injuries or early death from people, traffic, poisoning, infected wounds etc with nobody responsible to provide vet care they suffer terribly.

There's some pets that I think should be seen as specialist as need much more care to provide that high quality life. Parrots are one that make me uncomfortable & as they've such long lifespans can need generations in a family to provide care.

I think problems start as many pets are sold by people that have no care for the long term welfare & owners fulfill whims without really researching & giving responsibility for a life the value it deserves.

I haven't read the whole thread so it may have moved on but it's funny because I was thinking something similar the other day.

I got my cat because the owner of the mother had a m/h crisis which meant my cat was from a third litter that year and she was threatening to drown all the kittens so we found homes for them all and I took the little runt who no one wanted. We got the owner in with the gp etc and helped her get the mother spayed too.

My old girl coincidentally turned from the runt to the goddess of the litter (in my opinion) has had as lovely a life as I could give her and I love her more than words could describe. She is 17 now and I am helping her through chronic illnesses so she has as much quality of life until it's "time" but Iv been thinking as much as she seems happy and is affectionate and close to me and wants for nothing it's not a natural life is it and isn't that cruel?

Without my intervention she would have possibly been killed or something equally horrible but have I also not done right by her even though she could never have been wild.

I don't think I should have made a different choice and absolutely don't judge pet owners but if you think bigger picture it's a rather odd thing for humans to own animals for our own amusement and to control every aspect of their life and environment and to train them to live within our rules even if some of those go against their natural behaviours like walking them on leads or having them poo in boxes and only allowing scratching on a specific instrument and being angry or frustrated if they don't follow.

I don't know I may be drivelling shite.

My rescue dog controls mine and dhs life.

What time we get up.
When he wants his walks, ball games etc.
Where we go on holidays (we always take him with us)
What restaurants we go to (have to be dog friendly)
When we do our voluntary work (so one of us is at home with ddog we stagger our vol work)
He’s got us well and truly trained.

[quote CazzaCat]@VictoriaBun you definitely can’t compare the two things.[/quote]
Oh you definitely can.

My experience is that dog owners treat them very much like family members, much more than previous generations did.

I consider mine like my kids and am actually really surprised how similar my feelings are.

No, he will not move on and have Alice of independence like my kids will (hopefully!) but that's only because he wouldn't survive. Otherwise, I'd let him go.

YANBU; humans should stop breeding animals in captivity, and then there would be no more pets/companion animals (other than any wild animals who genuinely wanted to spend time with us).

But that applies to food too, so YABU to be sad for kittens if you do worse to cows, chickens, and bees.

@LastTrainEast

"Isn't that the same reason people have children?"

"If that's not wrong, why is having pets wrong?

You look after children only until they have their own life. You don't keep them prisoner for your pleasure. You don't neuter/spay them for your convenience and you don't put them down when the vet's bills get too high.

Your arguments don't work - people still have children for their own "selfish reasons" - the same as people who decide to get pets.

You can't just let your dog out to roam because an adult dog is not equal to an adult human. Fully mature dogs have the mental age of a toddler - would you let your 3yo out to live their life without any supervision or intervention from you? I'm going to go with no.

As for getting them neutered and spayed - yes, of course you do! Because it's for their own safety and well-being. Un-neutered tom cats get into fights and get injured. Un-neutered female cats and dogs can get pyometra and die if they're not spayed and are just allowed to have season after season.

And decent pet owners don't "put them down when the vet bills get too high". That's what insurance is for. But yes, sometimes an animals quality of life has declined to the point where being put to sleep is the kindest thing you can do. I would argue that sometimes human decline to the same point - which is why some countries have made voluntary euthanasia legal. Unfortunately the UK hasn't yet caught up in that respect.

YANBU; humans should stop breeding animals in captivity, and then there would be no more pets/companion animals (other than any wild animals who genuinely wanted to spend time with us).

He couldn't leave now as the garden is cat proofed but there were many years prior to that when my cat could have left. Even when he could wander the furthest he went was to the garden opposite to stare in their pond and then he'd come home. I presume that means in cat speak that I'm not bad to live with!