To be uncomfortable about pet ownership?

[aw1459]

Firstly, I know that humans have kept pets for hundreds, if not thousands of years, they provide companionship, and are supposed to be h
good for people's mental health and to reduce stress, but.... A friend of mine has just bought an 8 week old kitten from Gumtree. I went round to see the friend yesterday and the kitten, whilst cute, just made me feel sad. It's still a tiny animal separate from its mum and siblings in a house with no other cats, or animals, just friend and her DH. If she had got a cat from a rescue centre, I would maybe be a bit more comfortable with the idea but this kitten has been bred for human pleasure and the way friend talked about having to get a particular breed because of the way it looks made the kitten purchase sound a bit like buying a designer handbag.

So over night I've been thinking a bit more about the morals /ethics of owning an animal because it gives you pleasure and about the human having control over the animal's life. I know cats may be slightly different because when older they might be able to come and go as they want but if you own a dog or a rabbit etc, the human controls most things the pet can / can't do. I've never really given this much thought before so am I being too moralistic about the pet ownership or are there others who agree with me?

kittens should stay with mum for 12-14 weeks as vital socialisation happens after 8 weeks.

Absolutely. But there's no reason to feel guilty about taking a kitten from mum after that stage, as the mum will naturally start pushing them away once they are fully weaned.

All my cats have been rescue cats, and all have had very good lives. My last remaining cat turned 17 last week; is taken to the vet at the first hint of a problem; sleeps on whichever bed he chooses in the house, has a varied diet - there is currently a chicken roasting in the oven for him; has sheepskin rugs under the radiator for when he gets bored of the sofa, and can come and go as he likes, except at night.

I don't own the feline overlord, he has me wrapped around his paws.

[quote CazzaCat]@vanillandhoney that’s actually not true so please don’t post when you’re not sure, a feral female cat will not “boot” her kittens before 8 weeks unless she is unwell or scared away from them. They actually wean their kittens naturally by gradually stopping them from taking milk but they don’t tend to abandon. The kittens usually stay in the same colony as the mother with the males moving on to find a mate once they reach sexual maturity and the females having kittens of their own.
Sometimes you will see a mother cat with an older kitten still hanging around and then some brand new kittens to feed.
An 8 week old kitten could still be partially taking milk from the mother and would not survive in the wild on its own. They start to eat bugs or food the mother has caught at this age.

The only thing between a feral cat and a domesticated one is our human interaction and most rescues would take the kittens away from their mother to be rehomed once fully weened and definitely not before 8 weeks unless there was a heath issue.[/quote]
Meh, it's true in my experience.

I've always collected kittens at eight weeks old and the mother hasn't shown the slightest bit of interest in any of them. In fact, when the kittens have gone to her she's actively ignored them.

I don't see a problem with kittens staying longer (our current kitten came to us at 10 weeks) but let's not go down the road of pretending that taking an eight week old kitten home is somehow animal cruelty.

I see your point but equally it’s not like you can put animals down either. I’d never buy a pet for this reason though. I appreciate that animals can have a good quality of life with humans and would take in a homeless animal of I had the capacity (currently have young children so that would basically be tantamount to animal cruelty but maybe when they’re old enough to not be horrible to live with). But I agree that buying an animal is quite different morally.

Growing up.we had a lot of pets and occasionally one would have a litter - it never occurred to me that separating mum and babies was wrong until i had my own children. There is nothing i can do about the past but i have raised my children to know we only take in strays and if you want a kitten/puppy then they come with a mum. That is their normal, seeing pets as creatures we help and creatures that live in families. Never something we "own".

I've had a new rescue dog for a week after he was dumped

He has not left my side, loves my other dog already. He looks utterly ecstatic to be treated so well.

They are spoiled on their raw meat diet and sleep in a giant bed with us.

We're also both vegan/veggie.

It's the best we can do 🤷‍♀️

Growing up.we had a lot of pets and occasionally one would have a litter - it never occurred to me that separating mum and babies was wrong until i had my own children

But this is putting human emotions onto cats and dogs. Cats and dogs don't get broody - they have sex because their hormones tell them to. They have no concept of parenthood in the way we do.

I think it’s the human desire to have another living thing for our pleasure that I feel uncomfortable with.

We are coming to see now that it's wrong to keep animals in zoos and circuses. Pet ownership is no different and while many people right now will say that it's fine we will be looked back on as cruel.

We had goldfish in a bowl and birds in a cage when I was young and I enjoyed zoos and circuses. I didn't know any better. My parents didn't know any better either. It was just what you did. I couldn't do it now.

If you had hamsters/guinea pigs or similar you'd let them out occasionally and think that was kind, but not as often as we let murderers exercise and the animal did nothing to deserve its fate.

Cats you can let out, but that can't be great for them in a city. If you have a cat or a dog on a farm and it is never locked in that isn't so bad (aside from never having a normal life with other cats/dogs)

but.. you will spay/neuter your pets right? Imagine trying to justify that to a great - great - grand daughter.

I think it's the desire to have another living thing for our pleasure

That's why people have children ^^
They might pretend it's for other reasons but immigration would provide that

We have children for (entirely understandable) selfish reasons

I don't agree with selling animals on Gumtree but at least your friend is going to give the kitten a good life. Anyone could have bought the kitten with all sorts of horrible intentions.

Me and DH have had pets for the 40 years we have been married. Almost all rescue cats and dogs and we have given them a good life with lots of love.

At present we have 2 dogs, 1 of them is a rescue. We got him when he was 7 months old. He had been beaten and kept locked in a barn so no socialisation whatsoever. He also had only been given food and water when the piece of scum that had him decided to let him eat or drink.

Because he was not socialised he is terrified of almost everyone and everything. He likes going for walks but if we see other people, dogs, vehicles etc he gets scared and stressed. At home he seems happy and relaxed. He loved laying on the settee with me or DH and staring adoringly in our eyes! I don't feel guilty for having him as we have shown him love and kindness and I honestly think he knows that.

@Aber9

I think it’s the human desire to have another living thing for our pleasure that I feel uncomfortable with.

Isn't that the same reason people have children?

If that's not wrong, why is having pets wrong?

I agree, we have a dog. I've recently started to feel very uncomfortable about the fact that she pines whenever she can smell us cooking, she looks so sad when we're eating a delicious roast and we open a try of dog food for her. At night we crate her, sometimes she reminds me of Offred from the Handmaid's Tale, just wishing she wasn't inferior to the rest of the family and wasn't a prisoner with no rights.

Perhaps I'm just mad🤷🏻‍♀️🙈😂

I am right with you on this one.
There are so many kittens out there that are in rescue that need to be homed and sadly the situation is made worse by people making money off the backs of animals being bred.

Just to add, I also sometimes think of breeding and the fact that dogs are effectively raped and forced to hand their babies over as something alike to the Handmaid's Tale

Can't honestly say I've ever felt like that, but I won't own a dog because of how much attention they do require, and the fact I and my partner go out to work every day for long hours, I wouldn't want to leave a dog alone for such a long time. The cat doesn't care, he loves it. But a dog would care. My horse is better off under my care, he'd likely have died by now in the wild because of his issues. Can't say he has a bad life, spends the majority of his days in a field, eating or sleeping. And he's not in pain thanks to his insurance and my money (I say goodbye to my money a lot because of him). But he's worth it.

I wish people wouldn’t get cats. For all those people saying their cat is free to come and go as they please, where do you think they spend the day? Shitting in your neighbours gardens is where. When you get a cat your neighbours get the worst bits of having a cat without agreeing to it.

@ShirleyPhallus

I wish people wouldn’t get cats. For all those people saying their cat is free to come and go as they please, where do you think they spend the day? Shitting in your neighbours gardens is where. When you get a cat your neighbours get the worst bits of having a cat without agreeing to it.

Do you feel the same about people who keep their cats entirely on their own property?

@vanillandhoney i personally think keeping cats entirely indoors is pretty unfair on the cat 🤷‍♀️

Maybe we could dedicate one city to cat owners and everyone with a cat moves there. Maybe Birmingham.

@ShirleyPhallus

I wish people wouldn’t get cats. For all those people saying their cat is free to come and go as they please, where do you think they spend the day? Shitting in your neighbours gardens is where. When you get a cat your neighbours get the worst bits of having a cat without agreeing to it.

From the cat's point of view, we humans have plonked houses and flowerbeds in their territory. Humans have no inherent right to deem their needs as greater than those of any other species with which we share the planet. We should aim to co-exist as happily as possible - animals have to tolerate a great deal from humans, a few poos in a flowerbed are really nothing by comparison.

I agree. I do have pets but they are all rescues. If there was ever a situation where there were no animals needing homes, I would not have pets.

I would never ever buy an animal but I will give a good home to animals who need one

[quote ShirleyPhallus]@vanillandhoney i personally think keeping cats entirely indoors is pretty unfair on the cat 🤷‍♀️

Maybe we could dedicate one city to cat owners and everyone with a cat moves there. Maybe Birmingham.[/quote]
I didn't say keeping them indoors - I said entirely on their property, using a catio or similar to prevent them leaving.

Also, some cats have to be indoor-only for their safety or for health reasons.

[quote ShirleyPhallus]@vanillandhoney i personally think keeping cats entirely indoors is pretty unfair on the cat 🤷‍♀️

Maybe we could dedicate one city to cat owners and everyone with a cat moves there. Maybe Birmingham.[/quote]
You do realise that keeping a cat on your own property doesn't necessarily mean keeping it indoors? There's such a thing as at proofing.

All of our pets are from rescues, we give them the most enriched lives that we possibly can.
Your friend's decision to buy a cat from gumtree is questionable but don't worry about it being lonely, cats don't mind a solitary life, in fact our cat was much happier following the death of our other cat, which she grown up with.

@Thatnameistaken

All of our pets are from rescues, we give them the most enriched lives that we possibly can. Your friend's decision to buy a cat from gumtree is questionable but don't worry about it being lonely, cats don't mind a solitary life, in fact our cat was much happier following the death of our other cat, which she grown up with.

I had sisters.

They tolerated each other and didn’t go out of their way to fight each other, but at the same time, they didn’t really care about each other either.

One could have disappeared and the other would have given two shits apart from to wonder where the second portion of food is