To be uncomfortable about pet ownership?

[aw1459]

Firstly, I know that humans have kept pets for hundreds, if not thousands of years, they provide companionship, and are supposed to be h
good for people's mental health and to reduce stress, but.... A friend of mine has just bought an 8 week old kitten from Gumtree. I went round to see the friend yesterday and the kitten, whilst cute, just made me feel sad. It's still a tiny animal separate from its mum and siblings in a house with no other cats, or animals, just friend and her DH. If she had got a cat from a rescue centre, I would maybe be a bit more comfortable with the idea but this kitten has been bred for human pleasure and the way friend talked about having to get a particular breed because of the way it looks made the kitten purchase sound a bit like buying a designer handbag.

So over night I've been thinking a bit more about the morals /ethics of owning an animal because it gives you pleasure and about the human having control over the animal's life. I know cats may be slightly different because when older they might be able to come and go as they want but if you own a dog or a rabbit etc, the human controls most things the pet can / can't do. I've never really given this much thought before so am I being too moralistic about the pet ownership or are there others who agree with me?

Cat and dogs are domestic species they’ve basically evolved or been selectively bred to help humans and live alongside us.

I tend to prefer the term animal companions. A cat lives with us. The animal gives my family entertainment and companionship and in return we give him food, love, shelter and entertainment, plus health care.

I am also vegan, the cat isn’t.

8 weeks is way early for a kitten to leave its mum, isn’t it? I thought it was more like 12 weeks.

No, eight weeks is perfectly normal. Most female cats will boot the kittens at eight weeks if not before - they have sharp teeth at that age and you certainly wouldn't want that attached to you!

We got our current kitten at ten weeks but in the past it's been eight weeks. No issues whatsoever.

Yes, people keeping rabbits in cages /hutches, sometimes outdoors, are ignorant cruel selfish tossers.

@K1233 I completely agree, I contacted the breeder of my youngest cat and was put on a waitlist my only specification was a male kitten. The breed he is only have small litters and come in all colours. Also the price you pay for a registered pedigree is far higher. So many genuine breeders are neutering before their kittens leave because of people breeding from a kitten that isn't breed quality.

I actually know nobody who has a pedigree cat.

I tend to agree about caged animals. However, I had house rabbits who lived long lives.

My Mum lives next to an open field, where rabbits are killed by birds of prey or boys with guns. Every few years the whole warren disappears as they get Myxi.

I think my domestic rabbits were better off than the wild ones.

@vanillandhoney that’s actually not true so please don’t post when you’re not sure, a feral female cat will not “boot” her kittens before 8 weeks unless she is unwell or scared away from them. They actually wean their kittens naturally by gradually stopping them from taking milk but they don’t tend to abandon. The kittens usually stay in the same colony as the mother with the males moving on to find a mate once they reach sexual maturity and the females having kittens of their own.
Sometimes you will see a mother cat with an older kitten still hanging around and then some brand new kittens to feed.
An 8 week old kitten could still be partially taking milk from the mother and would not survive in the wild on its own. They start to eat bugs or food the mother has caught at this age.

The only thing between a feral cat and a domesticated one is our human interaction and most rescues would take the kittens away from their mother to be rehomed once fully weened and definitely not before 8 weeks unless there was a heath issue.

I'm not sure a long life is preferable to a life confined to a room or house. We don't assume that animals in zoos are living their best life, do we - simply on the basis that they are well fed and live longer?

I have 3 pedigree cats and I also have similar feelings as you. I have rescue rabbits and they have a lovely life, following a horrible start in life. I also have a vegan diet. I get so much pleasure from my cats and they seem very happy, and I feel I make efforts elsewhere for the sake of animals, but I do question the morality of pet ownership. I am also concerned about the welfare of the animals that my cats eat in their pet food, as I suspect they weren't particularly happy chickens!

A cat lives in our house. He is not our cat, we are the humans he chooses to reside with. Until someone else decides to feed him chicken and salmon.
I suspect some people assign feelings to cats that the cats simply don’t have.

Cats and dogs originally became domesticated through mutual benefit - humans provided warmth, shelter and a source of food (by virtue of rodents, prey animals, gravitating towards human habitations) - cats/dogs provided a means of keeping the rodents down and gradually, more elaborate forms of companionship. The cats and dogs we have today have a long, long, domestic lineage. In some ways, this may be exploited and sadly there are many cases of cats and dogs being treated badly, but I don't believe that an owner who meets a cat or dog's needs and, critically, treats the relationship as a mutual one, has reason to feel uncomfortable.

Caged pets are different in that they can't be described as naturally domesticated - we've chosen to take them as pets, they didn't come to us. A small cage/hutch etc. isn't normally enough to meet their wild needs, but meeting their wild needs isn't impossible with care and effort from the owner.

"Cats and dogs originally became domesticated through mutual benefit - humans provided warmth, shelter and a source of food"

I'm not sure dogs would have made that bargain had they known that their freedom would be highly curtailed over the years. That their increasingly lazy owners would leave them home when they went to work, that that's get a handful of walks through the day, if they are lucky and they would be bred to become increasingly stupid and biddable.

I see where you’re coming from. I’ve had digs rabbits and lizards. I know it’s awful to think of a wee baby being taken away from their mum. However if they are treated well then I don’t have a problem with it. I do however have a problem with animal farms that keep the mums as breeding experiments in a cardboard box in an outhouse even when it’s freezing. Or those who separate the animals from their parents too early. Or those who breed defects into their pets one example is the pug. Beautiful and boisterous animal but overbreeding results in massive breathing problems for them. My pets are part of the family. I would never mistreat them. I actually think I saved one of my pets from a bad environment on reflection. So yes it does seem quite sad. They are not a fashion accessory and once the novelty wears off that when the problems start cos people become resentful of the care and time and restrictions a pet can place on you.

Firstly, you are projecting human emotions into an animal they aren’t capable of having.
Secondly, on the whole, a pets relationship with a good pet owner is reciprocal. The human gets the enjoyment and companionship, the pet gets the care and attention they need. Most wild animals die at a much younger age than their domesticated relatives and generally in a lot more pain.
I am talking here mostly about cats and dogs, caged pets are a different matter.

I don't feel remotely guilty about adopting my cat. He was a stray taken in by a rescue and has lived a life of luxury for the last 12 years. Like a previous poster, I will always have pets while animals need to be rescued.

attitude goes along with the feeling that it is ok to treat animals who aren't usually pets in an appalling manner

Do you mean eating meat?

@FourTeaFallOut

"Cats and dogs originally became domesticated through mutual benefit - humans provided warmth, shelter and a source of food"

I'm not sure dogs would have made that bargain had they known that their freedom would be highly curtailed over the years. That their increasingly lazy owners would leave them home when they went to work, that that's get a handful of walks through the day, if they are lucky and they would be bred to become increasingly stupid and biddable.

Some owners being irresponsible doesn't mean pet ownership as a whole is irresponsible.

I'm also vegan (lifelong) as are my family but my cat's definitely aren't. A rescue would never give a cat to us because we have children and I would never pay someone for a moggy because this encourages them to keep breeding from them. I've seen some advertised for £200. It's not easy to become a registered cat breeder you need to be known on the cat show circuit and have a mentor. Each breed of cat also has different traits.

Pelleas like you I make a difference between good and bad pet owners- many years ago someone said they thought there were no bad dogs, just bad dog owners.

I'd like to see a dog registration scheme brought in.

I grew up on a farm, have always had a great respect for animals. I believe they're not for human consumption.

I have two dogs, and I adore them. But the thing is, they also adore me.

When I go to work, I leave the backdoor open so they can roam. Although I'm WFH at mo. They sleep upstairs with me. Plenty of attention. Plenty of appreciation. Plenty of love.

Perhaps they may have a better life in the 'wild'. Blooming heck, I think I'd have a better life living in a nice, hot country surrounded by palm trees..but, here I am..

@FourTeaFallOut you reminded me of a meme I saw recently

I have had dogs and cats for most of my life, usually 1 or 2 of each at the same time. I love them to bits and they are part of the family and usually take preference over us.
Just lately though I have been watching the adverts for Guide dogs and service dogs (where they show the cute puppies to pull on the heartstrings for donations) and I feel sad that these dogs will spend the majority of their lives working and having to put their owners first. They have to always be on alert for their owners benefit and although they have 'time off' they are effectively being bred to be a slave.

@Cherrysoup

8 weeks is way early for a kitten to leave its mum, isn’t it? I thought it was more like 12 weeks.

I hate animals being kept in cages, I’m horrified that sows are still kept in farrowing cages in the U.K. I don”t understand people who keep birds in tiny cages. I don’t care how much time they get to fly around a room, it can’t be good for the bird’s physical or mental health. I think if you’re going to keep a pet, it should be treated like royalty.

Yes its very early, kittens should stay with mum for 12-14 weeks as vital socialisation happens after 8 weeks. A good number of kittens are still taking some milk at 8 weeks.

They have to always be on alert for their owners benefit and although they have 'time off' they are effectively being bred to be a slave.

I'm happy to be corrected but I've always understood that well-treated working dogs are usually very happy. Dogs need stimulation - that's why they become destructive and neurotic if left on their own with nothing to do.

James Herriot commented that the happiest and healthiest dogs he ever saw were working farm dogs - always on the go and in the company of their masters. An assistance dog likewise is never going to be left alone for long periods and it will have constant attention during waking hours. Dogs who find the work too hard won't be progressed as guide dogs, they'll be rehomed as pets - the work will only go to dogs who are intelligent enough to engage in the training.

Cats in particular chose to be domesticated. 8 weeks is typical although reputable breeders say this is too young and 12 weeks is better (I was seriously considering a Siberian cat for hypoallergenic properties). People like cute younger kittens though. Buying off gumtree does seem a bit irresponsible. Cats usually find a way to leave their humans if they aren't happy!