Sick of being called Karen

[frog22]

Listening to Radio 4 and Caroline Hirons is on and she has already used the term Karen to refer to her followers. I'm just sick of it. It's as bad as calling a woman the B word or C word!

Why would she do it? Why do women do it to other women?

karens not even a posh name in the uk - it was a popular wc womans name in the 70s - so they're laughing at middle aged shop workers, nurses and cleaners while pretending to be fighting against privilege.

it's entirely possible to express an opinion without being an arsehole

Of course it is, however the issue is that it doesn't matter how women make a complaint, some will still think they're being 'a Karen'. Yes, there are some right entitled arses out there, their behaviour is embarrassing to watch and difficult to deal with. Unfortunately, that doesn't mean that women who complain about things or give an opinion in an acceptable and polite manner aren't seen as 'problematic' or 'Karens' either. That is the issue that has stemmed from the stereotype, it now means any woman deemed to be 'difficult'. There's a good chance that many women here defending the term have actually been called it themselves at some point without even knowing about it.

@inglory

So driving 4x4s, shopping in Waitrose & being married to a surgeon, doctor etc are all things to be judged for?

Just compiling my list, anything else I should add?

Not if you still act like a normal person but if you think that affords you an elevated status and ‘special’ dispensation then expect to be called out for it. Times are going to get very lean indeed and when people are poor I’m afraid their tolerance dips for displays of wealth.

@justanotherneighinparadise are you a white saviour? Am I oppressed because I don't like Karen?

Again, 'Karen' is not a racist slur that's going a long way to minimise the actual racism that so many face on a daily basis. I say that as a white person myself - if someone were to call me a 'Karen' I would never refer to that as an incident of racism. I'd think the person was a bit of an arsehole, but calling it racism is pathetic.

I effing hate this. It's ridiculous and Susan... get a grip

and you, Ella, Sophie and Chloe- sort yourself out

MouthBreathingRage
I think the term seems to have shifted from the arsehole 'can I speak to a manager' stereotype to being applied more generally, mainly by men.

Times are going to get very lean indeed and when people are poor I’m afraid their tolerance dips for displays of wealth.

So where is the line drawn? 2nd hand 10 yr old 4x4s ok? What about if you normally shop in Aldi but can to Waitrose once a month for a particular product?

But honestly so what if someone calls you a bloody Karen? Are we all so pathetic nowadays that we can’t cope with words. Everyone falls into a stereotype of one form or another, EVERYONE. You have no idea what people say about you behind your back, I’m sure I’ve moaned in a shop and been called a bitch once I left. So what? 🤷‍♀️

I don't think the level of outrage is justified at a time like this, although that's my personal opinion, but I am certain you will find others of the same opinion.

It’s not that that’s important I think (apart from people who are actually called Karen, for them it’s awful). It’s more that it trivialises the nature of legitimate causes so the very people you speak of will suffer because of it.

People won’t unite and address injustice for minority groups if all they are going to get is to be mocked demeaned and dismissed. We don’t fight discrimination by discriminating against other groups instead! It’s lazy and futile and undermines all the genuine hard work that has been done and the causes they fight for.

@justanotherneighinparadise

But honestly so what if someone calls you a bloody Karen? Are we all so pathetic nowadays that we can’t cope with words. Everyone falls into a stereotype of one form or another, EVERYONE. You have no idea what people say about you behind your back, I’m sure I’ve moaned in a shop and been called a bitch once I left. So what? 🤷‍♀️

Because it's not an adjective, it's a name.

Use the word 'bitch' instead, so be it. Use 'Karen' or 'Jane' or 'Sarah' etc then it's not fine.

"There's a good chance that many women here defending the term have actually been called it themselves at some point without even knowing about it."

Sadly it does stand to reason, based on the connotations of the put down, that the most vocally outraged by the term are likely to be the ones being called Karens. It's very much a catch 22.

@LolaSmiles absolutely. You see a lot of it on social media. Worst one I saw recently was a man who followed a young woman home and filmed her whilst she begged him to stop, calling her a 'Karen', filming her house and car reg. Her crime? She have flipped the middle finger at him. He was trying to ruin her life for being 'a Karen' because she was rude. Would that have happened to a man? I dont think so.

San Francisco are passing a new law; the CAREN Act. Caution Against Racially Exploitative Non-Emergencies.

www.cnn.com/2020/07/08/us/caren-act-911-san-francisco-trnd/index.html

To be fair, this shows that the idea of a “Karen” comes from a very specific issue in the US. Have a look on Reddit, YouTube etc and you will see some shocking videos; lying, screaming, entitlement etc. If you aren’t ringing the police on a black person for having the audacity to walk down your road, or screaming at a teenage shop employee over a minor inconvenience, you’re not a “Karen”. It’s got nothing to do with silencing women’s opinions; it’s a push back at a certain type of person who makes life a misery for those they deem beneath them. There are male equivalents, but they aren’t names that tend to be used in the UK, so they haven’t really taken off here. Someone said our equivalent is Gammon and I couldn’t agree more.

It would suck to be called Karen right now, but I’m sure all the Sharons, Kevins, Tarquins, Trevors et al are breathing a sigh of relief right now! They are getting a well deserved break!

if someone were to call me a 'Karen' I would never refer to that as an incident of racism. I'd think the person was a bit of an arsehole, but calling it racism is pathetic.

Whattimeisisrightnow In America Karen is used to describe a racist, white middle class, female. Of course it's not racist, it's describing Karens as people who are racist.

And yes, it's just a word. But it's really awful for those of us who have it as an actual name. It's gone beyond social media now.

I think it's rude and nasty and I don't surround myself with rude and nasty people in my life.

Sadly I can't control any form of media or I'd ban it! 🤦🏼‍♀️

@IsItGinOclock1

I actually said to my husband this morning “do you get what the Karen thing is?” he actually tried to google what it meant and we were still none the wiser. At one point I thought it was because someone acted like Karen out of out numbered and just spoke their mind, then I assumed it had come from a funny meme or something and we just aren’t down with the kids mid 30s! I’m still not sure where it has come from or what it actually means?

It’s part of the whole meme culture that’s been going on for ages and this one in particular has crossed over into the mainstream. There’s loads of them, scumbag Steve is probably the closest male equivalent. People will post a short line over the picture, usually about a particular experience they’ve had, and attribute it to that stereotype.

The whole Karen thing came from a stereotype of American ‘soccer moms’ and ‘wasps’ primarily being UR and rude to retail workers. First world problems was made popular by the same culture if I remember rightly (oh no my diamond earrings scratched my iPhone was my favourite ).

I can see how it would wear on you if your name was Karen or you’re constantly hearing it but in all honesty I think the whole thing had been massively blown out of proportion and is now feeding itself. It’s not a new phenomenon though, the perception of ‘Kevin’ was really damaged through the 80’s/90’s as a stereotype of a weak, nerdy man and I remember the perceptions of Sharon’s and Tracy’s as tarts for want of a better word (I think that was down to Viz?).

MouthBreathingRage that's awful.

I think that some of the issues. Prior to a different Mumsnet thread I'd never heard Karen used for anything other than the arsehole 'can I speak to a manager about this non issue where I am being unreasonable but I want to throw my weight around to intimidate you into doing what I say' use.

Since then I've realised there's a whole other use.

I do think some of the people on here who are saying 'women should never so much as comment about terrible customer service' are deliberately missing the point and are probably the 'can I speak to the manager types'.

block it , it’s simultaneously annoying but also important - petty minded white behaviour does need to be addressed

What a racist statement. Like non-white petty minded behaviour never happens, or maybe it's only a problem when a white person does it.

@CallarMorvern But people (both on this thread and in real life) have referred to it as a racist term because apparently it’s predominantly used towards white people. Not because those on the receiving end are being racist.

Sharon's and Traceys had to deal with it in the 80s...

Karen is what women who treat service staff like shit and expect to get better service by carrying off are called. If you dont want to be called it then dont do it.

Really? Would you be one of those service staff in question? Do you do a shit job because you can't be bothered / or you're not very good at it, and then hate it when people complain about you? Your vacuous comments betray you.
From Karen

OP, YANBU. I agree with you. I hate it. It's discriminatory.

@cakecakecheese

Sharon's and Traceys had to deal with it in the 80s...

And in the social media age it is worse. I saw an angry man posting on a FB thread about a local planning issue (I know, I need to get a life) using "Karen" as a generic insult. Came from nowhere, and other men on the thread replied to say how funny this male was. But I've seen this prick posting before and it's clear he doesn't like women, so now he has a new word to use for women instead of TERF or witch.