Any former gymnasts or parents of gymnasts our there?

[PurpleRiverIsland]

news.sky.com/story/british-gymnastics-claims-athletes-beaten-into-submission-amid-culture-of-fear-12022525

I witnessed and was victim of a lot of physical and emotional abuse when I was an elite gymnast at 3 different clubs and from 4 different coaches. I know some of the clubs these girls (speaking out in the media) went to and I’m not surprised at all about the allegations.

I’m wondering how prolific it was. What were your experiences of the sport?

YABU - I was/am involved in gymnastics and have never seen anything untoward

YANBU - I was/am involved in gymnastics and I witnessed physical or emotional abuse.

Please comment too if you would like to share your experiences.

@andannabegins I really would encourage your daughter to dance for fun rather than trying to get into a dance school with all those injuries she has.

Parents do know and allow their children to train with horrible coaches though, look at the numbers of children who's parents signed them up for Dance Mums auditions when they'd seen how Abbie Lee had behaved toward the children in the dance team.

The problem with both dance and gymnastics is you are pushing your body way beyond it's natural limits, therefore pain is inevitable. And therefore it attracts those who are perfectionists , who want to be able to feel control over their body, and often those lead on to eating disorders. And then you get coaches who push and push in order to get the results
Britain was always rubbish at gymnastics when I was a kid. Getting medals now has come at a heavy price.

For a child, sport should be for fun. Parents need to make sure they dont get caught up in the competitiveness of it all and make sure it remains fun, even if that means changing clubs or sports. Think what a tiny proportion of kids makes it to the very top, it's not worth risking a childs mental or physical health over.

I don’t like the hours very young children HAVE to do in order to hit the BG pathway to national competition levels. It feels wrong.

This. This is a key issue in gymnastics as a whole but if the world doesn’t change it I guess how could the UK? The reality of gymnastics is harsh and even the amount in lockdown these girls have been expected to do has been ridiculous. But as most are doing 18 hours minimum per week of training normally then They see it as normal. Or what you need to do to get the chance to shine.
My dd could compete at commonwealth level I am certain of it. She has represented her country once but I saw how fierce the English competition was and how the welsh team were homeschooled in order to manage the hours of training necessary... and it’s not for us. Or her. Sadly- as she has such talent, and had it been any other sport it would seem ridiculous to imagine a “career” would be over by your teens...
a huge overhaul of skills and levels would need to be done globally by FIG or similar to make overtraining illegal and frowned upon and levels made to be sat older and older until we had adult female gymnasts rather than children... ballet dancers can push their bodies to extremes even as young adults and you don’t get 13 year old Prima donnas, So why not gymnasts?

levels made to be sat older and older until we had adult female gymnasts rather than children... ballet dancers can push their bodies to extremes even as young adults and you don’t get 13 year old Prima donnas, So why not gymnasts?

It’s because larger bodies (by which I mean a normal female adult body and anybody taller than 5’2”) can’t do the skills; it’s physics. Not many adult females could ever do a double straight somersault because they couldn’t get far enough off the floor, no matter how hard they trained.

I would love to see gymnastics become an adult sport, but what draws the crowds? Tiny, cute girls in glittery leotards doing death-defying skills. We saw it with Olga Korbut, who has since spoken out about being hungry, smoking to keep her weight down and being dominated by her coach. We saw it with Nadia Comaneci, who has had all sorts of problems including an eating disorder. The list goes on.

Good point re the physics of it. Maybe lockdown and the subsequent onset of puberty for the gymnasts of a certain age might affect the upcoming generation of gymnasts!!!

I am astounded and appalled by the passive parenting evident here. ‘Begging’ your child to leave? Who exactly is the adult and in charge here? Who has overall responsibility? Allowing your child to continue to participate in something you know is causing mental and physical harm to them is unbelievable. And then complaining someone else deprived you of 20 hours a week with your daughter? Ehh, no. You signed her up. You paid the fees. You brought her to the sessions. And you didn’t stop bringing her even when you knew it was harming her. That’s when you should have stood up and parented properly and done the right thing for your child.

I have a question, specifically about UK gymnastics: the things described on this thread, such as sitting on children’s backs and physically stretching them out, are they legal? Like, if you did those things in everyday life, it would be a crime, but are there rules in place that protect coaches from these sorts of consequences? If you saw someone kneeling on your child during training and called the police, what would happen? Genuinely curious as to how deep this goes.

Aside from that, I’m so sorry for what so many of you have experienced. It’s horrific reading.

@Singlebutmarried

Gym in Buckinghamshire? This is where DD was.

I get the chills going past it to the tip now. Hateful place.

I’ve been to the soft play there too, and raised eyebrows at some of the private training that’s been going on there.

We don’t go there now.

I wonder if this level of 'abuse' is prevalent in other sports too, swimming, cycling etc.

I know of children who train for hours swimming- early mornings, hours on end etc and wonder whether children really 'consent' to this bit get pushed and pulled along by parents, coaches etc

My children are competent swimmers and 'tried out' for swimming clubs but were put off by the attitudes of the coaches (i did not like the way they spoke to the kids either) and the hours of training.

This is all so interesting and I am so sorry for those of you who have been through dreadful things

I loved gymnastics when I was a child but never had the opportunity to pursue it properly and was always regretful I hadn't
When I had my daughters I saw others doing ballet and dance which seemed to so much about the outfits and the make up.
I figured gymnastics would be a better life skill

My daughters are 6 and have done gymnastics since they were 2y6m
At last years watch week I was shocked by how little they could do. Changed clubs but stilll they have not made much progress really-
They haven't really asked about it while it's been off during lockdown so I am thinking that we will not be going back

If this sort of thing was going on in children's homes and it was known about, they'd be closed down.

Sadly I can tell you from personal experience that this isn't the case.

@GabrielleChanel if your DC enjoy it see if you have a local Cheer club to try. It's less about perfect poses and many DC that go along make far more progress than they do at a gym club.

My lovely, talented daughter required a hip replacement at age 21. Her ortho believed her hip was destroyed due to an injury that was never able to heal when she was a competitive gymnast. I will feel responsible for her pain and suffering the rest of my life.

@sammylady37

I am astounded and appalled by the passive parenting evident here. ‘Begging’ your child to leave? Who exactly is the adult and in charge here? Who has overall responsibility? Allowing your child to continue to participate in something you know is causing mental and physical harm to them is unbelievable. And then complaining someone else deprived you of 20 hours a week with your daughter? Ehh, no. You signed her up. You paid the fees. You brought her to the sessions. And you didn’t stop bringing her even when you knew it was harming her. That’s when you should have stood up and parented properly and done the right thing for your child.

I agree completely. My DD is 6, there's no way I'd let her join a club that actively banned me from being present to watch how the she did and whether she was enjoying it. I have no idea how anyone could see their child injured and allow them to go back to training. It isn't the child's or the coaches decision, it's the parents, and any coach who tried to force the issue I wouldn't want involved in my child's life.

Yep my daughter is a gymnast now. I have concerns about how she is treated

@Browntile so why on earth don’t you stop it, instead of watching closely as it happens?

I think there were some really unfair comments about @june2007 right at the start of the thread. I think she hit the nail on the head.

@random mess thank you- there is cheer here and i took my girls but my stockier twin was left to be a "bottom"
"I don't like it when people stand on me Mummy"
It is also anecdotally very expensive with competitions and outfits
But I will look again.

@GabrielleChanel oh bless your little one not liking being a base in stunts! Have to say no idea when they will be stunting again... going back to "bubbles" for tumbling, drills, stretching etc but no stunts!

I guess costs vary club to club.

Ours keeps competition outfit for 3/4 years and facilitate selling 2nd hand and buying with growing room. At that age they would only do the 2 or 3 most local competitions.

All questions to ask about what you are signing up for though.

@dingledongle I posted upthread about my experiences with an abusive swimming coach. I was doing almost 20 hours a week by age 11, and I was getting up to train at 4.30am. 16-20 hours is recommended for elite or aspiring elite level swimmers, and for some reason some clubs extrapolate that their talented juniors should also be doing that workload. I have longlasting damage to my knees, hips, back and shoulders and I've had surgeries to repair injuries from overuse.

My parents never pushed me, particularly. The coaches certainly did, and then the culture takes over and you push yourself. There was a lot of pushy parenting around though. Ours were allowed to stay and watch, and there were plenty sat there with their own stopwatches, taking splits every 50m.

I think about the parents often. I wonder why more of them didn't step in and remove their children from that situation. There were some that did, of course, and those kids were generally regarded as not being tough enough to cut it. There was quite a dismissive attitude towards people who chose to leave- perhaps because secretly we didn't want to stay? I think someone mentioned earlier that people who abuse children also groom the adults, and I think that's the explanation that makes a lot of sense to me.

My coach only abused the most talented swimmers. If he was yelling at you, or calling you names, or telling you you were fat, or throwing things in your direction it was because he cared. The others were all but ignored (equally great for their self-esteem, I would imagine). There was a general attitude of you were lucky if he was picking on you/ your child because that meant he was taking an interest. And he'd coached Olympic champions so he had to know what he was doing.

Very interesting and saddening thread to read.

I have a question, specifically about UK gymnastics: the things described on this thread, such as sitting on children’s backs and physically stretching them out, are they legal? Like, if you did those things in everyday life, it would be a crime, but are there rules in place that protect coaches from these sorts of consequences? If you saw someone kneeling on your child during training and called the police, what would happen? Genuinely curious as to how deep this goes.

This hinges on consent, an extreme example but if a boxer breaks another persons jaw in the ring there can't be a prosecution, as the injured person has consented to being in the ring and accepts the associated risk.
Same result outside a pub and it would be a different story.

What's interesting here though is that below a certain age a child is deemed unable to give consent.
So it must come from the parents.

You pose an interesting question.

I am interested to hear of your experience peoniesandpastels as some of the parents you have described I have witnessed (standing at the side timing the lengths, arguing with coaches).

I suspect that parents are discouraged from watching so the coaches have complete control and children will not question at the time only with hindsight ☹️

I do wonder how much physical damage is done to individuals let alone the psychological damage over time. Some of the parents I have seen across lots of sport appear to be living out their own fantasies of achievement

Certainly I have encouraged my children to enjoy sport but would be less bothered about competing at County let alone National level.

I think about the parents often. I wonder why more of them didn't step in and remove their children from that situation

I can tell you one reason. I gave up gymnastics aged 11. Some of the other girls, especially those better than me, and older than me, were heavily pressured by their parents to stick with it, even if they wanted to stop. Why? Because the mothers, particularly, had invested so much time in taking their daughters to training and to competitions etc., to say nothing of boasting of their daughters’ prowess, that they simply didn’t want their daughters to give up gymnastics; they wanted to see a pay off for their investment.

Wow this is just horrendous. I'm so sorry, so many of you have had these experiences. I took up one of the above mentioned sports in my early 40s and discovered that I'm actually very, very good at it. The coaches I've worked with have all told me that I would very likely have reached an elite level if I'd been able to start as a child. It's one of those things I've found a bit bittersweet as it's great to be capable of what I'm now capable of, because it had always been a fantasy of mine, but a bit sad to think that I missed out on a chance to have been amazing. I'm really, really glad now though to have just had a normal childhood and to be able to participate for pure joy now. And I also get to participate across all related fields instead of having to dedicate myself solely to one, maybe two, specialities.

So where does all this leave gymnastics as a sport?
If you can’t reach the top without punishing /wrecking your body whilst still a child and not really consenting , how can the sport progress/ continue?

@andannabegins I am so glad your daughter left that cruel environment and has found a pastime she enjoys

I found giving up gymnastics quite traumatic because I still very much enjoyed the sport and wanted to do it. Also your gymnast friends become like family as you spend so much time together so you have to grieve not seeing them every day. And suddenly going from 4 hours sport a day to nothing takes a significant toll. Plus all your goals and dreams are suddenly shattered. All you’ve done for the past 10 years is train so you don’t have any other hobbies. I think it would be very hard for a parent to forcibly or suddenly remove a gymnast for those reasons alone. On top of that everyone around you in the gym club will be saying it’s normal and you’ll be fine in a few weeks if you just stick at it. Or the abuse is a one off misunderstanding. And this is what needs to be done in high level sport and elite sport is always tough. Add to that that most parents wouldn’t be aware of the level or frequency of the abuse. So I see what people are saying about the parents but I do think it’s harder for a parent to remove a child than people are suggesting. The child would probably never forgive the parent and might well blame them for shattering their dreams and taking away a very successful career