To think racism is everywhere?

[roxfox]

I just watched this mini film thing and it's really gotten me quite upset.

I'm black and no one has ever been really openly racist to me but I've had loads of times where stuff has happened and I know it's because I'm black. No one ever talks about the little things and how much anxiety it causes!

These guys did nothing to anyone but have been treated unfairly anyway. One guy was even told he wasn't a human being.

Am I unreasonable for feeling I'm not welcome in the western world even though I was born here and so was my mum.

I agree that racism is everywhere roxfox. It's subtle and often it's subconscious, which may be why people object when it's pointed out. But it doesn't mean it's not there.

I'm white (I now realise with all the white privilege that goes with it) but even I notice some of the subtle racism around me. People being a little less warm or less patient, especially if the person has an accent.

It must be awful to start a new job/go to a new playgroup or whatever and be uneasy about how you'll be received. It's hard enough going into a roomful of strangers without also worrying if people will be less friendly just due to your skin colour.

I'll gently point it out if someone is being overtly racist but it's hard to say anything if someone is just less friendly. How can you prove it?

It's tricky - but that's why people get away with it- perhaps even denying it to themselves or consciously keeping their behavior under the bar so it's not quite obvious to object to.

For me, I am consciously starting to call out those behaviors..... not necessarily explicitly accusing people but at least asking the question in a way that passes some of them the discomfort and hopefully makes them think.

My partner is black and since being with him I have been struck by how nastily he is treated, completely unjustifiably. How, for example, his ticket is checked way more carefully at the cinema. How if he doesn't have his membership card, he's not told 'no problem' like I am - he's given a patronizing lecture about the rules and required to prove who he is. How he is yelled at for straying into the wrong area of some barrier, while I would be told 'oh sorry ma'am - this way please'. How we go into a furniture store, and split up to browse, and I have an attendant asking me how they can help me within 30 seconds, while he is either ignored for ten minutes or tracked.

These are the small things. And then there is the genuine big worries - that if he got stopped by police for some reason, would he get treated fairly? Would he even come home? It's less publicized, but the same thing that happened to a George Floyd has happened in the UK too....

So no, YANBU - racism is all over the place....

Thank you for your support. I'm sure she didn't mean any harm but I appreciate you protecting this space for me. Have been feeling quite emotional and it's lovely to have someone want to look out for me x

No worries OP. The longer I am on MN the more I understand why so few black mumsnetters choose not to comment on these threads. Most people just don't get it, and the threads are soon overrun by racism experienced by gypsies, Irish people etc.

SharonasCorona stop policing the behaviour of ethnic minorities and saying they aren’t allowed to discuss their experiences of racism.

Your behaviour is racist.

Yes i agree with you roxfox

I think it is everywhere

And Some of it will be those things ive seen called micro aggressions

💐

White people are having their eyes opened. A lot didnt even know that they were closed

Thats a good way of putting it

@narrowboatgirl

SharonasCorona stop policing the behaviour of ethnic minorities and saying they aren’t allowed to discuss their experiences of racism.

Your behaviour is racist.

I couldn't agree more, thank you for that.

@SharonasCorona by trying to silence me you are being racist. How can you fight for equality whilst also telling others that the racism they face is irrelevant, because they're not black? You should want an end to all racism, not only the kind that affects you.

Black people are not terribly safe in the US. At least poor black people are not. It's as though being black is one strike against you and being poor and black makes two. Even that is not everyone. They did elect Barack Obama after all.

In the UK it's not as bad as that. There will be pockets of racism, but we're past what I like to think of the tipping point. You can't be openly racist here and rely on everyone in the room going along with it. (same for homophobia I'm glad to say).

Someone shouting racist stuff in a pub or on a bus etc could expect to get a hostile reception and would probably be removed. That's because most people here are against racism even if they have some unconscious bias.

You might get somewhere talking about unconscious attitudes as long as you remember the key point - that they are unconscious.

But in order to remove the vestiges of racism in the UK you'd need to talk about racism in the UK. Almost everyone starts with the police murdering black people in the US. Should I write to my MP and demand action to stop that? Maybe make it illegal?

There are protests demanding action, but what action? What is it we're supposed to do? Awareness yes. I get that and agree with it, but there's no action to be taken that I can see.

Racism is part of human nature, so yes it's everywhere.

Human nature is to be wary of those who are different to us, and with BAMEs the difference is visibly obvious so the wariness is automatic. It's how we've evolved, throughout most of human history there was very good reason to be afraid of/not trust/dislike strangers because if a group of unknown people turned up who were unlike you and had different customs, there was a real likelihood they weren't arriving with peaceful intentions.

Even the use of PC terms like BAME highlight how ingrained this attitude is - it encourages and perpetuates the idea that people of different races are not the same as one another. If you use terms to differentiate races, it is unsurprising and probably inevitable that in any society some people will be treated differently to others.

To end racism, you need to end the concept that there are different races of people. In the BAME community we celebrate our cultural history and identity which goes against the very thing we are trying to achieve.

That's not to say people can't train themselves to take consciously unbiased decisions - but just because you don't act on your bias, doesn't mean you don't possess it.

@sharonascorona

Who are you to say racism isn't experienced by gypsies and Irish people?

On a thread about racism in general (started by a black woman but not about BLM or the black experience of anything) you are proving yourself racist by denying and silencing others experiences. You don't just get to fight for the race that's in the media and 'cool' right now and call yourself anti-racist. You actually have to care about all races. The moment you tell a gypsy to shut up for her race, you're racist.

@LastTrainEast there are not just vestiges/ last pockets of racism, and black lives are not only less safe in the US. Black men have been killed in almost identical ways as George Floyd in the UK, using the same method of neck restraint that is still legal in Britain.

Black people are more than twice as likely to die in police custody.

Check out: www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2020/jun/11/black-deaths-in-police-custody-the-tip-of-an-iceberg-of-racist-treatment

Or

www.bbc.com/news/52890363

Or

www.elle.com/uk/life-and-culture/a32767493/restraint-technique-killed-george-floyd-used-uk-police/

You can write to your MP demanding action on that?

Sorry I should have been specific.

Black people are more than twice as likely to be killed in police custody than white people in the UK.

They are over nine times more likely to be stopped and searched in the UK.

I think that is totally unacceptable.

It is everywhere and it’s our job to stamp down hard on it’s stupid face wherever it pops its ugly head up, kind of like a giant whack a mole. I’m sad you don’t feel welcome OP but you 100% are, bigots on the other hand can jump in the sea.

@PablosHoney

It is everywhere and it’s our job to stamp down hard on it’s stupid face wherever it pops its ugly head up, kind of like a giant whack a mole. I’m sad you don’t feel welcome OP but you 100% are, bigots on the other hand can jump in the sea.

Hoorah to that!

I used to think racists were a minority of trouble makers and ignorant people. But generally a small minority.

Then I see comments sections on SM and realise it's more common place than I thought. I absolutely despair how uneducated people are, hell, I'm not even sure uneducated is the right word. Lacking basic humanity probably sums it up better.

Black people are more than twice as likely to be killed in police custody than white people in the UK.

This is true, but what is also true is that
White people are more than twice as likely to be killed in police custody than Asian people in the U.K.

www.statista.com/statistics/1122775/deaths-in-police-custody-in-the-uk-2019-by-ethnicity/

@Crispsnatcher I can assure you that racism is absolutely everywhere. I've experienced enough of it to say that confidently.

Mmm and it's depressing to read @Pinkyyy

Social media has made me realise how narrow minded people truly are.

@Crispsnatcher it truly is. What's worse is that the same people who are fighting for their own equality, have no interest in that of others. After all, there is no freedom until we are all equal.

@Pinkyyy Hmm you've made this comment or similar twice now on this thread and it really reads like a bit of a snide remark or a dig. Perhaps I'm reading it wrong but I assume this is why @SharonasCorona replied your first post.

Who are these "same people who are fighting for their own equality but don't care about others" that you keep mentioning? Do you want to mention them by name? Are you talking about black people? BAME people? Who? There's something unsaid in what you're saying.

@srownbkingirl well to start with there's @SharonasCorona.

@Linguistically and @BraveGoldie summarise my experiences perfectly. Unfortunately @LastTrainEast my experience has been that in fact the public at large do not intervene in incidents of racism. Even when the aggressor had left the vicinity and I was clearly a child in school uniform never did anyone even approach me to check I was ok or show any form of solidarity. That has affected me more than the overt racism from individuals.

[quote Pinkyyy]@srownbkingirl* well to start with there's *@SharonasCorona.[/quote]
Ok but you made your first post about "those claiming to be against racism.." before @SharonasCorona replied. You weren't referring to Sharona then were you? Or is there a posting history between you two since Sharona mentioned you're "a prolific poster on race threads".

Just seems a bit cryptic, that's all.

@srownbkingirl I've never had any interaction with that poster before (that I can recall) which is why her remark about me what slightly alarming. My first post was in reference to people who I've encountered multiple times who are openly racist towards travellers but wouldn't dream of being the same towards BAME people. It's extremely common sadly.