To want a better relationship with BIL, SIL and DNiece/Nephew and not know how to go about it?

[ConkerGame]

This is more of a WWYD. DH and I are starting to feel really down about our relationship (or lack thereof) with DH's brother and his wife, and consequently with DNephew (3) and DNiece (1).

DH and his brother aren't really close as there's a bit of an age gap but they've always got on and there's never been any fall outs or anything like that. We also both really like SIL and haven't had any falling out with her. They both appear to like us when we spend time with them - i.e. conversation flows well, everyone seems happy and relaxed. The main problem is - we hardly ever do get to see them! They host a family event once a year but that's for everyone in the wider family, so no quality time with them or with the kids. We maybe see them twice a year other than that and we've only met DNiece once since she was born

They live a 2 hour drive away and both we and they have a car. Since the children came along we have made it clear that we are very happy to fit in with them - so we're happy to do the drive to their house or happy to host them at ours if that's easier or happy to meet somewhere else that works for the kids. They have basically said a flat no to visiting us as the journey is too long for the kids and our house isn't big enough (we live in a flat in London). They also don't visit PIL often because of the journey. Fair enough, we're happy to go to them and their house is much bigger so they'd have plenty of space to host us, especially if it was just for the afternoon. There are no other issues such as illness, disability or money problems and their house is lovely so no embarrassment about that (and it's also very lived in so they're not just precious about the furniture!).

We tried waiting for invitations to their house initially (after invites to our place were turned down) but those invitations never came. So we then tried suggesting meet ups elsewhere/letting them know that we were happy to pop round for just a cuppa as we have other relatives and friends nearby too but they always have a reason why they can't. We tried saying "we'd really love to see you all, are you free any time in the next couple of months?" and they replied to say they were busy every weekend for the next 4 months!

We're not sure what else to do now. It's sad enough about the relationship with BIL and SIL but we're really getting down about not seeing the kids. They're the only children in the family so they're very important to us but we're just not getting a chance to build a relationship with them. We send them presents for birthdays, Christmas and bring them back gifts from holidays etc and we've started to send the odd video message during lockdown as they've said the kids can't really cope with video calls, so we haven't even seen them virtually. Any others ideas about how to build a relationship with the children? Or do we just need to wait until they're old enough to have their own phones/email addresses and we can contact them directly?

WWYD?

I remember having children that young. You have so little time for yourself, it’s relentless and exhausting. Relatives pushing (however politely) for our time, energy and attention was the last thing we needed on top of work, kids, housework, admin etc. Especially those we weren’t close to. Maybe they’re feeling the same? It’s another thing on top of a lot to do so it’s easier to try and put it off otherwise you get even more exhausted.

@CalmConfident we took prepped food for the freezer after both births, and after the first one SIL said she was finding it difficult to keep all the baby stuff together where she wanted it so we got her a caddy thing for inside the house and an outside bag version. Just things like that, not big/crazy items like a prank or anything!

Sorry, autocorrect fail - like a pram

A few people have suggested national trust / local park type activities - I think I’ll try that in case they don’t like having visitors to the house or find it stressful

@Rainbowshine fair enough, that does sound exhausting. Do you hope to spend more time with family as the kids get older or are you not particularly fussed about a close family relationship?

Honestly I wouldn’t follow the advice of the well intentioned posters suggesting a frank conversation about your disappointment/ shock/ unhappiness about the situation.
You have made it perfectly clear you’d like to see them over a period of time. They haven’t made time. It is nice of you, but going any further would tip most people over into irritation and resentment; from: “I feel bad about seeing Conker and Mr Conker so little - they’ve been so lovely about the children but I just can’t add more demands on our weekends into the mix” - to “WTF! I’ve/ you’ve seen Mr Conker twice a year for years and now we’ve got children suddenly they want to be best mates and feel entitled to them?”
I really think you should keep up the gifts and family gatherings and reduce your efforts to meet up. In a few years when they are older it will be much easier for them and you might get the relationship you would like. I mean a one year old baby and a 3 year old? They’ll be knackered! And assuming at least one of them works, weekends will pass in a flash.

I find it odd your DH would be “heartbroken” given he was previously okay with the status quo. It’s not as if this is a rift.

Have the family as a whole gone bonkers over the children? Is there a family WhatsApp etc that’s dominated by posts about them and photos of them with grandparents and other relatives? I’m wondering if you DH feels marginalised through not having the pot of gold and not being a close part of it.
Otherwise his heartbreak seems an overreaction.
Don’t push and turn their lack of prioritising you into active resentment. It’s easily done when people are sleep deprived and trying to juggle work/house/friendships/family relationships and their own relationship as a couple.

You do sound really desperate to have them as a big part of your lives. And they sound not interested. They don't need a 'reason' - maybe they just feel different to you, more private, already have their own lives and group of friends, have no space, whatever it is, can you accept it and stop pushing so hard?

I really like my SIL, BIL and their boys and we have got a bit closer in recent years. All the boys are young adults now so we meet up on Boxing Day ( always at ours)and have a great time.
I see my SIL once every few months for coffee which is nice. We are never invited to theirs and I have come to understand she is embarrassed about the size of their house. Ours is definitely not a palace . I think she doesn’t want to accept our invitations because she won’t reciprocate. If you see what I mean.
We have had text and email contact during lockdown and I am looking forward to seeing her again.

We have a similar relationship with my sil. We live 10 minutes drive away but only see them at family gatherings at the in laws. Everybody is very nice but we don't have a close relationship with them. When the in laws die I don't think we will really see them at all. DH also has a brother that we never see.
We had kids first and she was /is a lovely auntie to them, buys them gifts etc, but never looks after them for me or takes them out or anything like that. They have a child now and we will do the same. Will always buy gifts and would help out if ever asked no problem. But that's the extent of it

I think people react to the burden of early childhood in different ways though. Yes, some do see their relatives/friends a lot more, to spread the load a bit, but others batten down the hatches and ride it out until they can get a shower more than twice a week, their house doesn't look like an explosion in toysrus, and their children are more civilised, and can behave in public for ten minutes.

This though- effectively missed the kids’ childhood just makes you sound dramatic and it's all about you. They're 3 and 1 FGS.
You're not high on their radar because the brothers have never been particularly close. He doesn't get to play Uncle now children are on the scene. You need to look at ways of building a relationship as adults, rather than "you're keeping us from the precious" which is how this is coming across.
Sorry- maybe it's the way you phrased it on here, but can you see how it might be perceived by others?

They may simply be busy with the people that have always been part of their day to day lives.

One of the things I found difficult when I first became a parent was the people who had been happy to be Christmas, wedding and funeral type relatives suddenly wanting a bigger place in my life, and being huffy if it wasn’t reciprocated.

I already had a life and a routine with close (in terms of relationship not biology) family and friends that I was trying to fit in with the whirlwind of young children. People who suddenly decided they wanted more of me because I had children they were interested in came after those people in terms of priority for spending time together.

Thanks @7ofNine I can see it coming across that way. We would also love a closer relationship with BIL and SIL for themselves as we do actually really get on with them when we do meet up and we have lots in common. Maybe we should try more video calls etc when the kids have gone to bed to make it clear we value them and not just the kids? But then some people would take that as us having no interest in the kids and trying to avoid them - I do sometimes feel you can’t win!

Hmmm how often did you want to see this couple before they had children?
It could be construed as a little insulting that you are all over them now they have kids.

For example my half sister now thinks it appropriate to send kind messages and advice to my daughter who she has not actually spoken to in years....other than to be rude and abusive.

Now that my daughter has a baby she is all friendly....and wants to be a relative where she didn't before.

My daughter finds it downright offensive as though she is some kind of vessel.

Not that I am dating you are are as bad as her but it is an angle to consider.

*suggesting!

yes! You can't win!

Sorry- you know what I mean. A video call after bedtime could be a really good idea, just for a catch up. They will not feel you're only interested in the children then, plus they don't have to tidy up too much.
Be prepared for it to take some time to arrange though- 3 and 1 year olds are not renowned for going up to bed nicely, and mine usually woke several times an evening and needed comfort.

@lyralalala I do understand that. I think it’s a bit different here as we’d only met SIL a few times before she got pregnant (she got pregnant about 9 months after they got together) so it’s not like we’d been ignoring her for years or anything like that. We made as big an effort as we could for the few months available and then she had DNephew.

From some of the posts on here I do think they fit into the “batten down the hatches” type of people as they do always seem to be really tired and trying to get through things. I think I was just confused as my friends have all taken the opposite approach of “come and help us/distract us /remind us of who we were pre-kids” so I hadn’t come across the other type of “leave us alone to cope!” before but I’m starting to get it now.

@Worriedmum4

We have a similar relationship with my sil. We live 10 minutes drive away but only see them at family gatherings at the in laws. Everybody is very nice but we don't have a close relationship with them. When the in laws die I don't think we will really see them at all. DH also has a brother that we never see. We had kids first and she was /is a lovely auntie to them, buys them gifts etc, but never looks after them for me or takes them out or anything like that. They have a child now and we will do the same. Will always buy gifts and would help out if ever asked no problem. But that's the extent of it

Why would your SIL be obligated to look after your children for you? I never get this, unless you’re exceptionally close (like very close friends close) then just why would she?

I have a feeling my SIL’s probably feel this way about me but I’m not close to either of them, wasn’t before children so wasn’t suddenly going to become so once they had children. Again, I always ensure the children are bought gifts etc and try and spend time with them when we do see them but I’m not going to play auntie of the year when I’ve just never been close to either parent.

This isn’t a dig at you personally, just I’ve noticed a lot of people once they have children, except a lot from people that they’ve never particularly bothered with before or that they’ve never had a massively close relationship with before. You don’t need children to form a good relationship with someone, that should be done pre children IMO and then it spills over into helping out with the children/ being close to them once they’re born .

I couldn't stand my brother coming round when I had small children tbh. He was always off hand and judgemental in his manner.

@ConkerGame Your BIL has always been your DH’s brother though. So they have the people that were day to day in his life and the people that were day to say in SIL’s life. It’s not like until he met your SIL your DH seen his brother twice a week and then that changed. Even though they had a baby quickly your DH has never been a daily part of his brother’s life so that’s unlikely to change just because he’s had children.

I agree there could be some merit in laying your cards on the table. Try to frame it in a range of ways that could be helpful to them - 'we could take them out for an hour or so, or longer, or play with them in your garden, or babysit in the evening if you wanted to go out for a drink or a meal. We want to be helpful. We know that we don't have kids and so have a lot to learn, but we'd like to try, and hopefully we can be a help and support to your family over the years. What can we do? We'd like to have a relationship with you and the kids. Maybe a regular day trip out twice a year, or more if you like - what would work for you?'

OP I think you sound like a lovely person and it’s really sweet you’re tying so hard but honestly I would stop.

I should think your partner and his brother weren’t close before probably because they just don’t have much in common. You say you all get on well when you see each other and that may be, but it’s probably because they’re making a big effort to make conversation, keep it all flowing etc. That can take a big amount of energy. You don’t really know SIL that well and so for her, it probably is like really having to make an effort with conversation etc when you see them.

I would hazard a guess it’s more something like that, that they think you’re nice people but don’t know you particularly well or have an awful lot in common with you and therefore it’s quite mentally taxing (not in a nasty way but just that they have to THINK when socialising with you) id imagine with young children they’re knackered and when they socialise atm, they probably want to prioritise people where it really is just like breathing, people that they’ve been close to for years.

I could be way off the mark but I’d imagine it’s probably something like that tbh. I would keep sending presents for the children and stay in touch with the odd message, keep attending the gatherings where you would normally see them but otherwise, just leave them to it for now. You could try and arrange to see them over Christmas maybe.

OP,

You sound lovely but the early years can be relentlessly tiring if you are not getting sleep.
Additionally, she worries about her parents...she sounds as if she is flat out.

She could be just swamped.

Don't be a source of pressure, despite your good intentions.

If I were you I would offer to go to theirs and mind the children for the day whilst they go out for lunch with herparents or on their own.

If you did that you could offer them a night away in a hotel nearby, again you mind the children.

It will be busy for you, but you will get to know the children and your would be doing them a huge favour.

Young children can leave you empty and shattered at the end of the day and only fit for bed....until you are there you just don't know...

@Destroyedpeople sorry to hear that, hopefully we are the opposite of that! They do seem to genuinely enjoy our company when we are there but maybe they are just polite and good at pretending!

@lyralalala yes fair point about the brotherly relationship. I think I’ve just always blamed that on the age gap and BIL’s travelling for work. SIL and I are almost the same age and BIL doesn’t travel anymore plus I thought something like the kids would be a common ground to bring us all together. Think I just need to accept that different families do things differently - DH and I were both brought up to be close to our aunts/uncles/cousins so I think we expected a similar set up for our generation with the next but clearly they don’t feel the same. Maybe SIL was never close to her extended family - I’ve just realised I don’t actually know!

Similar situation here. Dh’s brother married someone who is very close to her own family. There has never been any falling out or even a cross word, it’s just that she is absolutely not interested in us.

Dh is sad about it, especially as we have no wider family, but in spite of his efforts to set up family meet-ups etc, there’s always a polite declining of any suggestions. I think the cherry of hurt on the cake was seeing photos of dn’s big 18th birthday party, with all sil’s family grinning away, and no invite for us - and we live three miles away!!

We have exactly the same thing happening!
Except, there was a time we were always together at the weekends etc. No fall out, nothing we can think of. Any invites are fobbed off with we'll see or just 'busy every weekend for the next 4 months'
It's a shame because I miss my dn & ns and our children are missing out on that relationship but you can't force it so we make more effort with our friends and their families now.