To want a better relationship with BIL, SIL and DNiece/Nephew and not know how to go about it?

[ConkerGame]

This is more of a WWYD. DH and I are starting to feel really down about our relationship (or lack thereof) with DH's brother and his wife, and consequently with DNephew (3) and DNiece (1).

DH and his brother aren't really close as there's a bit of an age gap but they've always got on and there's never been any fall outs or anything like that. We also both really like SIL and haven't had any falling out with her. They both appear to like us when we spend time with them - i.e. conversation flows well, everyone seems happy and relaxed. The main problem is - we hardly ever do get to see them! They host a family event once a year but that's for everyone in the wider family, so no quality time with them or with the kids. We maybe see them twice a year other than that and we've only met DNiece once since she was born

They live a 2 hour drive away and both we and they have a car. Since the children came along we have made it clear that we are very happy to fit in with them - so we're happy to do the drive to their house or happy to host them at ours if that's easier or happy to meet somewhere else that works for the kids. They have basically said a flat no to visiting us as the journey is too long for the kids and our house isn't big enough (we live in a flat in London). They also don't visit PIL often because of the journey. Fair enough, we're happy to go to them and their house is much bigger so they'd have plenty of space to host us, especially if it was just for the afternoon. There are no other issues such as illness, disability or money problems and their house is lovely so no embarrassment about that (and it's also very lived in so they're not just precious about the furniture!).

We tried waiting for invitations to their house initially (after invites to our place were turned down) but those invitations never came. So we then tried suggesting meet ups elsewhere/letting them know that we were happy to pop round for just a cuppa as we have other relatives and friends nearby too but they always have a reason why they can't. We tried saying "we'd really love to see you all, are you free any time in the next couple of months?" and they replied to say they were busy every weekend for the next 4 months!

We're not sure what else to do now. It's sad enough about the relationship with BIL and SIL but we're really getting down about not seeing the kids. They're the only children in the family so they're very important to us but we're just not getting a chance to build a relationship with them. We send them presents for birthdays, Christmas and bring them back gifts from holidays etc and we've started to send the odd video message during lockdown as they've said the kids can't really cope with video calls, so we haven't even seen them virtually. Any others ideas about how to build a relationship with the children? Or do we just need to wait until they're old enough to have their own phones/email addresses and we can contact them directly?

WWYD?

@ConkerGame I’m sorry this is making you so sad. Can really feel it in your posts. Maybe give them some time as well. Their kids are so young maybe they’ll be more up for time together when they’re out Of the toddler years. You never know what can happen in the future.

Is this something you kind of want more than you Dh? He doesn’t seem as motivated as you from what you write here. You don’t mention your own family - are you close to them?

We rarely see my BIL or my brother. It used to bother me that they weren’t interested but frankly it is their loss. DD doesn’t care either. She has lovely relationships with relatives who bother their backsides, not having people who don’t care about her in her life isn’t a problem.

Is there a nice farm park or National Trust type place near them? Could you say that you fancied it and would they and the dc like it?

Or ask what sort of places local to them they go for days out and ask ofnyou can tag along the next time.

I have met my brothers children once. On sixteen years.

I wouldn't be inviting myself to 'tag along' like an unwanted extra. Sod that.

I'm in the reverse also. My brother is not interested in my children and neither is my sister. Neither of them have children.

I don't speak to either of them.

From their perspective, your DH (via or in partnership with you) suddenly decided he wanted to see more of his brother after years of being content with fairly low contact, at the very moment their lives became exponentially busier; with the arrival of their children.
This situation more commonly arises with the parents of couples. There can be exasperation on the new parents’ side that after years of twice yearly get togethers, their parents or in-laws suddenly expect weekly visits. Grandparents unhappy with the level of contact they are “allowed” are often asked how much of the couple they saw before the grandchild arrived and advised that it is unreasonable to expect a close relationship with very frequent visits if that hasn’t existed previously.
They clearly just don’t want to see you enough. It doesn’t mean they don’t like you, but remember they have a baby and a tot, at least 2 sets of parents to see, plus their existing friendships to try and maintain amidst it all. It’s hard to keep pre-baby friendships going in the early years, I can see why they don’t want to add new commitments on top.

You sound very nice, I’d keep sending gifts for Christmas and birthdays but stop trying to meet up. In a few years you might get to see a bit more of them. Don’t take it personally.

Same position here
Utterly uninterested in us or our children
Compounded by toxic in-laws who are loving the angst

Give up OP. It will just tie you in knots.

We have totally stopped bothering now and feel much better

Ahhhh it’s so sweet you want to be an active uncle and aunty. Sounds like you are really thoughtful too!. I’m on the other side...I have 2 kids but my brother and his wife aren’t overly interested in seeing us. They send gifts and we see them once or twice a year but they have no real relationship with the kids. I’d love for them to be bothered like you.

I think maybe try being very open with them about missing the children and wanting to develop a relationship with them. If they are not responsive when you are very clear then sadly I think you’ll have to accept it but do what you can to be close to the children through the time you do get with them. Maybe be creative....take funny videos of places you have been, send them cards with pictures in, send a video of you reading them a book etc. Hopefully even if they are not seeing you directly they will feel your love through those things.

Personally I’d bite your hand off if I was your SIL!!!

@Stuckforthefourthtime

I think you sound nice, we're in the reverse position and wish some of my siblings would be interested in seeing us and meeting their nephews!

Have you been really frank? Maybe you could drop a simple card to say that you know their lives are very busy and the last thing you want to do is add another job for them - at the same time, DH hugely values his relationship with his brother and you'd both love a chance to be a part of the lives of your only niece and nephew, whether that is just a funny gift at Christmas or getting to know each other a bit better so that you might be able to do some occasional babysitting and let their parents get some time out together.

If they still don't respond or give a polite or blunt decline, you know you've tried, and maybe it's time to out some of your energy into families that would hugely appreciate it, whether via a local scouts group, or a big brother/little brother programme or somewhere else.

I think these suggestions are worth a try. Being honest (without being demanding). Additional kind adults being involved in children’s lives are so important. Good luck.

I love my bro very much, his wife not so much. Their children are badly behaved (due to my DB and SIL's poor parenting). They have tried really hard to spend time with us but we have had to feign disinterest as it was so hard seeing my SIL and nieces. We say we're busy to prevent a total breakdown in the relationship. If we were to tell them the truth about how we see through my SIL's lies and how we don't like spending time with badly behaved children then I'd lose any relationship I have with my DB. Life is also too short to spend time with people who are stressful to be around. I write this not because this particular dynamic applies to you, but more that their priorities obviously lie elsewhere. Or perhaps there's an issue you don't know about. I'm really sad the relationship I have with my DB is so poor but I have to content myself that it's better than nothing. I'm sorry your relationship isn't as you'd wish it to be. I wish we could both spend time with our families in a way that everyone can enjoy.

I feel for you as it does sound as if you are really trying and in all the right ways.
I dont know if it will help but despite the fact I love my siblings, I am probably a bit the same as your SIL and BIL when it comes to making arrangements and seeing them.

There are underlying reasons I feel a bit apathetic to it all which I don't think my siblings have a clue about (no deep dark secrets or traumas just general sibling issues) and certainly their spouses wouldn't. On the surface all is good, I just dont want to see them that much.

I can't offer much advice other than to leave them be and let them approach you, if they want to. You can't force a family relationship any more than you can any other and they will either have their reasons or just feel a bit apathetic to seeing you more than they do already.

@Stuckforthefourthtime @namechange30000 @Mawbags @AIMD ah we need a “relative exchange” tool on here to match up people who have relatives that can’t be bothered with them and their kids, with people like us who want a family to be more involved with!

@ConkerGame I can see you mean well, i just think you have to be careful about how it comes across to the parents even if they are reading messages. My brother is completely uninterested in our family too, we have had problems with him though so that has got in the way and I’ve ha dot accept that it’s just not going to happen. Keep doing what you’re doing, be consistent and be dependable is what I would say. If you’re partner has never been very close to his brother it might take time and there might be feelings there that you don’t know about as well. To be honest it’s nice to hear someone who really wants to make an effort and be close to the kids, it sounds like they’re lucky to have you

This caught my eye OP “We’ve tried to be really mindful of this and sent them actually useful things after they’ve had each kid, to save them time etc, as well as more pretty/fun gifts. “

What did you send?

Hmm, I think part of the problem is how hard and unrelenting parenting children this age is. Yes, it's perfectly possible to be booked up every weekend for four months! We found it really hard to see our best friends more than once a quarter when our DC were that age. We both worked FT, and only had the weekend to do all the stuff that needed doing. Maybe cut them a bit of slack?

Are there any attractions near then where you could meet up? I hated people coming over when mine were this age, as the house was always a mess, and the stress of tidying to have someone over would send me over the edge.

I think you should use the current situation and be truthful with the wife.
Talk to her on the phone.
Tell her that this year has shocked you, that as a family you regret not seeing more of them.
That this year you wish to change that, but you know building relationships takes time.
Tell her your willing to do the traveling, and would she agree to meet up for an hour, to go for a walk.
I would hate to be forced to spend a day with children , with strangers, you may find this is her worry.

Agree with @mummmy2017. Ring them and lay your cards on the table. If they tell you to fuck off, they're not interested then at least you've got your answer.

I don’t think you’re doing anything wrong - some people just don’t want that kind of relationship with relatives. We don’t! Thankfully dh doesn’t speak to his family anyway and my only relative (my mum) died in 2019 so it’s just us but goodness me I really couldn’t stand people wanting to meet up / do stuff. I’m really introverted and just hate it.

If the brothers aren’t and weren’t ever close, then probably it’s not going to come to anything. It sounds a bit like you want to see them because they’re the only ones with kids in the family, rather than them. Do they feel that you’ve never bothered with them before but are now only interested because they have kids.

I think you need to be careful pushing this too much now.

@cheeseaddict420 yes I think you’re right and with family it’s very much a marathon rather than a sprint. I guess there are many different phases of life and just because we’re not close now doesn’t mean we won’t be in future. It’s sad we’ll have effectively missed the kids’ childhood but I guess better to have missed those years that they won’t even remember than the older years when they’re becoming their own people

And I can’t spot now who asked but yes we are close to my family (parents, siblings and partners) and also to PIL, so it’s not like we have no other family and are therefore forcing ourselves on these guys. I guess just sad that we don’t have a similar close relationship with them. PIL also have a nice relationship with my parents so it’s just this couple and their kids who are “left out” so to speak, except they leave themselves out!

They're probably sat there thinking "when will they get the hint?"

It's not a reflection on you and your husband. It's just that some couples already have a "team" around them with their friends who are likely at the same stage of life as them.

Go to the parties they do invite you to and enjoy them, look forward to the limited contact you do have but remove whatever obligation you feel you have to their children. It's hard but try not to overthink it. If you are planning to have children yourself in the future then you will likely find that brings the extended family a bit closer anyway.

A few of you have talked about the relentlessness of the early years of parenting and that’s something we’ve had to understand, not having kids ourselves yet. I think the difficulty is that we have close friends who’ve had kids who we still see all the time (although they do live closer) and these friends also see a lot of their families and even rely on some of them. So for us it’s harder to understand why they still very much want to spend time with people whereas BIL and SIL don’t, especially as we’d be very willing to be helpful in whatever way worked best for them, whether babysitting or taking things over or whatever.

You know, @conkergame I stopped bothering in the end because my kids were asking why they never got presents back when they’d been picking their cousins gifts. I’ve also been completely ignored IN MY OWN HOME and it’s really not setting a good example for my children who should feel valued by their relatives.

Hence..... we focus entirely on my side which probably leads MIL into the evil daughter in law narrative but tough shit.

Urgh.