To be sick of Covid whingers?!

[MissingThePoint1]

I am soooooooo fed up of listening to people moan about covid and what they've 'lost' from their own perspective without seeing the bigger picture.

Maternity leave and pregnancy rights particularly irritate me.. daily I see people moaning and creating petitions to extend maternity leave for those who were effected by covid because it's not fair they've missed out on valuable experiences. I'm not on maternity leave but I do have a 1 year old and it's equally hard to be stuck at home day in day out with him. We miss parks, we miss groups.. how do we get our time back? How can we be compensated?! We can't.. we suck it up and make the best of it.. Same as those on mat leave should.

Moaning about partners not being allowed to appointments, scans, visiting hours etc. I'm pregnant, my husband hasn't been to my scans, I'm having a section so it's likely he won't be at the birth either.. it's shit I agree. But to moan about it. To feel robbed and go on just irritates me.. your moaning you husband can't be at your 12 week scan.. families are missing funerals, missing saying goodbye to loved ones. People are dying alone in hospitals. Being alone for your scan is not huge in comparison. There are extremely clinically vulnerable women needing to access maternity services so why shouldn't be made as safe as physically possible for them. Why can't people accept that?!

I'm disappointed. I thought this pandemic would bring us together, unite us, make people less selfish but I was clearly very naive. Everyone's made sacrifices and everyone has been effected in some way.. why can't people try and see the bigger picture.

[Whatelsecouldibecalled]

What trust are you with @MissingThePoint1? I haven’t heard of a single trust where they are not allowing partners at the birth during a section. It completely goes against all the guidance. The NMC and RCOG have worked very hard to ensure there is correct information and guidance out there for pregnant women to try an ease unnecessary scare mongering regarding birthing alone

It must be difficult for you having a 1 year old and being presumably quite far along in your pregnancy (as you me mention scans and delivery options, not usually done until after 20 weeks at least) and can imagine that’s emotionally draining in a time like this but everyone is entitled to say how they feel. Just like you did in your post.

I have given birth under the new rules my baby is 12 weeks old. Then birth was totally fine but the idea of birthing alone really really upset me. Please don’t scare monger, as I said please link your trust policy so other women can see if it’s their trust before they get upset reading your post.

I feel I’m entitled to feel a bit miffed, 5 years in the making and a round of ivf. I’ve fought bloody hard to bring my baby into the world and the world I knew changed hugely 12 days before he arrived. That’s a short time to adjust expectations. Maybe that’s why people are feeling ‘robbed’ or upset. It’s a massive adjustment. No midwife after care (all done via phone apart from 1 appointment) no HV
Visits. No family support. No Friends to help. The government have done a wonderful job in scaring people to death that they will die if they get covid (despite such a small number in comparison to infection rates if otherwise you are fit and healthy) so feeling like you can’t let anyone near your baby despite the risk being so low. Partners returning to work after two weeks and you having NO support next work or structure. Just ‘get on with it’. That’s an awful lot for a new mum to process on top of recovering from growing a human and delivering it into the world.

Clearly to don’t feel it has affected you in any way but doesn’t mean others haven’t felt it. Try to find compassion rather than anger.

[Whatelsecouldibecalled]

@MissingThePoint1

Taken directly from RCOG guidelines don’t you can challenge your trusts policy:

4.4 What about birth partners during the COVID-19 pandemic?
Advice
• Women should be supported and encouraged to have birth partners present with them during active labour and birth if they wish to do so, unless the birth occurs under general anaesthetic (GA), in accordance with local or national hospital policies.
• If symptomatic or in a period of self-isolation for confirmed SARS-CoV-2 infection, birth partners should remain in self-isolation at home and not attend the unit.
• On attendance at the maternity unit, all birth partners should also be asked whether
they have had any symptoms suggestive of COVID-19 – e.g. fever, acute persistent cough, hoarseness, anosmia, nasal discharge/congestion, shortness of breath, sore throat, changes in or loss of sense of smell or taste, wheezing or sneezing, in the preceding 7 days.
23

o If these symptoms began within 7 days or less, or they remain symptomatic (other than with a persistent cough), they should be asked to leave the maternity unit immediately and self-isolate at home.
o Guidance about testing for women and their birth partners is discussed in the RCOG document on women seeking maternity care in a hospital setting.
• We recommend that asymptomatic birth partners are permitted to stay with the woman through labour and birth, unless the birth occurs under general anaesthetic.
• Birth partners should be asked to remain by the woman’s bedside and to not walk around the ward/hospital.
• Restrictions on other visitors should follow local hospital policy.

[FrugiFan]

People are dying alone in hospitals. Being alone for your scan is not huge in comparison
It is if you find your baby has a serious condition or has passed away.

In any case, it's not a competition. People are allowed to be annoyed or upset about things even if someone else has it worse, pandemic or not. There are always people in a worse situation than you, does that mean nobody should ever be upset or annoyed about anything because it could be worse?

[Hiphopopotamus]

Oh feck off OP - I gave birth six weeks ago. My partner could be thee for the birth but then had to leave when our DD was four hours old. I wasn’t discharged until 4 days later from a post natal experience that almost broke me that I had to do totally alone, while my DH was at home unable to support me and unable to see his daughter. I have then had no face to face support at all at home while struggling as a first time mum with breastfeeding and not knowing what’s normal and what isn’t - all appointments with midwives, HV etc have been just a quick phone call. It’s shit.

My best friend two weeks ago went for her 12 week scan alone, to be told that her baby was alive, but severely deformed and unlikely to make it to 20 weeks. She then had to go back in alone for an induced miscarriage. Her husband unable to support her or be there himself to hear the news about his child. That’s shit.

We lost a very close family member to Covid back in April, had the whole horrible 10 people funeral and unable to be together as a family to support each other, so I believe I have ‘perspective’. Negative experiences are not a competition, and life is very difficult for a lot of people right now, including first time mums who have had their lives turned upside down without any of the usual support. So feck off.

[SingingWren]

You are absolutely lying about your partner not being allowed at your csection. That gasn't happened anywhere in this country.

You're moaning about moaners, so ironic

[Whatelsecouldibecalled]

@Hiphopopotamus you put it better than me.

[theendoftheworldasweknowit]

Covid has underlined for me that no matter the issue, this country is always going to be split roughly 50:50. There is literally nothing we agree on as a country. Nothing.

[squeekums]

Id prefer to listen to valid concerns like lack of support in pregnancy and birth over your BS "im sick of people whining" OP
Grow up
You can not engage with what you deem whining
Their need and worry about support needs addressing and can just be turned off

[HeeeeyDuggee]

Personally I don’t see why there is so much vitriol towards new mothers and pregnant ladies In your OP

Maybe you’ve been lucky enough to only have one of those glowing breezy pregnancy and scan appointments but there are loads of women who have previously experienced bad news or severe anxiety during those who do need their partners support. It’s not a petty whinge to them. Everyone copes Differently

I’m on maternity leave have been since just before and throughout lockdown. Do I personally feel mines been ruined no but that doesn’t give me or anyone else the right to judge any mums who feel they are.

Women are so vulnerable after giving birth mental health wise and the idea that you have to go through that experience alone and the initial months after having a baby alone with no support from friends family, Limited support from midwives and HV is tough. Those women have every right to complain

I think there is a massive misconception about what those women are upset about. I’ve seen many a thread saying they shouldn’t be winging about missing baby groups and should just sit down and shut up. It’s not about missing baby groups really thought they’ve been robbed of

• support from health care professionals. Midwife and Hv visits are not happening post birth. Just a quick call These can be vital to new mums (even if you’ve had a baby before)
  

-mental health support. The news reported a few days ago a massive rise in postpartum depression during lockdown. OP you may have been lucky enough to have not to experienced it but many women struggle post birth enough without adding Covid on top of it.

• family and friends. Sure everyone has had to suffer not seeing their family and for some that’s not an issue but imagine just giving birth and being denied any kind of external support from family and friends. It’s not about grandparents not getting to see and hold grandchildren. During those first few months sleep deprivation and recovering from a birth can be hell for some women and their partners. The support they revive from family and friends could be massive. You can’t judge that
  
• socialisation. Ok baby groups on the surface not a big deal but to some women they’re a life line. In some women those groups provide essential mental and social support.
  

childcare post maternity leave is a massive factor in women wanting their leave extended. For me luckily not an issue I wasn’t planning to go back anyway but I know friends who’ve now been told their child has no nursery place because of Covid they cannot accept new starters or there is such a backlog of new starters and children they will not be honouring they places they’ve offered at that time. Sure loads of parents have had childcare issues can’t deny that but it’s still a valid issue for these new mothers. On top of that some of their babies have never seen anyone but mum & dad but they’re expected to just throw them into a childcare setting (if they’re lucky enough to get one) ok you might not see this as an issue but loads of woken do and their anger, concerns and frustrations of it are valid.

[Namesgonenow]

Hi there

Perinatal Mental Health is my specific area of expertise. In addition I have an infant myself. As it turns out, pregnancy and maternity - two protected characteristics by the way - are the specific site where the pandemic has had significant disproportionate impacts. The NCT is giving evidence on This to the parliamentary select committee on equalities today if you’re interested. I myself have been part of evidence supply to the parliament on this. It’s part of an ongoing mapping of these disproportionate impacts. The Institute of Health Visiting which has campaigned against the redeployment of Health Visitors shares these concerns as well as do the Parent Infant Foundation. It’s not abo to missing baby groups - it’s about a far more whole scale significant and disproportionate impact on perinatal mental health, pregnancy and maternity with specific disproportionate impacts on pregnant women and new mothers of colour and from BAME communities.

That petition to extend leave is pointless. It’s distracted from real lives issues. Please feel free to listen to the select committee panels or to wait for it’s current ongoing inquiry seeking evidence on disproportionate impacts before making whingeing posts displaying very little understanding of a significant issue.

[Namesgonenow]

I would link to a few current studies on disproportionate impacts on pregnancy and maternity but as at least one of these would be fantastically outing I am sitting on my hands here. But there are massive studies currently being funded, being conducted and commissioned in the UK and globally on this. Your understanding of the pandemic and it’s role in pregnancy and maternity particularly re: socio economic and ethnic vulnerabilities, psycho social outcomes, financial and domestic abuse and disproportionate impacts in general is mind blowing.

[Nicknamegoeshere]

@Namesgonenow Totally agree.

As a mum to a six-week old, 10 and a 13 year-old sons at home all day and a partner at work ft as a key worker during lockdown it's been tough to say the least.

I was very fortunate in that I had the option to employ an IM during my later stages of pregnancy as care (or lack of) on the NHS I felt was becoming unsafe. Not everybody has that option.

Six weeks on and I haven't seen one health care professional in person since my home birth. This personally doesn't bother me as I'm a confident third time mum with a good support network, but I can only begin to imagine how this may be negatively impacting on other new mums.

[Catastrofuck]

Namesgonenow Thanks for your posts, that’s really interesting to read.

I gave birth during lockdown. All the women I know who also did are fully aware that there are other difficult situations to be in - it’s possible to be concerned about others as well as your own circumstances.

[Catastrofuck]

Oh and the posters who talk about “nice to have” and women being “grateful” and claim they would have been fine with the restrictions can back off. Until you have been pregnant or given birth in a pandemic with associated restrictions to healthcare you have no idea how you would feel, and you have zero understanding of women’s concerns.

[MumsGoneToIceland]

One of the biggest concerns of the long term impact of COVID-19, is the impact on people ‘s mental health. Experiences and the impact of them are individual to a person as everyone handles situationS differently.

I personally worry that if we start telling people they are not allowed to ‘whinge’ unless their experience/feelings are considered to be ranked high enough in the ‘COVID-19 top trumps game’ some people are likely to bottle up their emotions and it have a greater impact on their mental health and well being In the long term

[Realladymarmalade]

With the majority of other posters on here in agreeing that this is not a pissing contest and every pregnant woman has the right to complain. I'm a 3rd time mum , and a MH professional myself. I think its acceptable at the most basic level to feel robbed of basic preparation for birth experiences , and at the most severe level to have to process traumatic news alone. At the most basic level loss of planned experiences, adjustment.
In addition the addition of homeschooling responsibilities and the disconnection from.community supports result in this generation of 2020 mums stacked up on the risk factors for PND. I have been there myself with dc2 and I am working hard to mitigate this with DC 3 already. My sense of pregnancy entrapment has been worsened by bring held hostage at home it has felt with my other 2 (:partner away 50% of the time )..

Your comments are inflammatory. Why - because none of these basic needs for care (like others my antenatal appts have been minimal) , support, control , are anything to do with a sense of entitlement. They are essential buffers against PND and trauma.

I fully anticipate future covid recovery service mapping in MH to make provision of perinatal MH. I've already made noises as a mum and professional to my MP regarding the impact of maternity care on MH. I have a voice, it's my dc3 but what about others who dont , about FTM , about those who are isolated by circumstance as well as by covid?

Giespeace I am so sorry.

Best of luck to the other ladies. Every sadness and anxiety is valid..wishing you a positive birthing experience.

[Realladymarmalade]

Also looking fwd to hearing the outcome of today's select committee.

[labyrinthloafer]

@ThePlantsitter

I tell you why. It's because the government have decided to relinquish responsibility and let us all 'use our judgement' which is code for slag everyone else and their decisions off and come to a decision about what the law should be via social control instead of actually doing any governing.

⬆️ what they said

[LucaFritz]

My baby was born in January so we have missed baby grobaby,family seeing him grow up to now, his vaccines,our check ups etc etc for me feels like all the little things i looked forward to when i thought about been a mother have been snatched away thanks to this virus and im sure im not the only new mum to feel this way our experience of being first time parents will be and always will be extremely different to that of women before us and we are allowed to moan and mourn that loss of those little steps that were so important without losing sight of the bigger picture yabu

[Catastrofuck]

“ because none of these basic needs for care (like others my antenatal appts have been minimal) , support, control , are anything to do with a sense of entitlement. They are essential buffers against PND and trauma”

This. I have been mostly fortunate in the outcomes to my pregnancy and birth but it has been such a headfuck to get to grips with the fact that things that were previously deemed essential for maternal and infant wellbeing (with my first child) suddenly weren’t. I had my baby during the first few weeks of lockdown and in the weeks prior to my due date restrictions were changing daily. Each time you accepted “ok, that’s not going to be available / how I expected” and then the next day something else was stopped. It got to the point where I felt like I needed to know what the absolute bare minimum could be - what was the absolute basic care I could expect, an empty room and a midwife? A tent in the car park? - because the ever-decreasing options (that were previously felt to be essential for maternal and infant wellbeing, not just “nice to have”) were hard to keep track of

[Catastrofuck]

I had my second in lockdown. I really really feel for first time mothers, as I think it was easier for me, other than concerns about childcare during labour

[Wecandothis99]

Sounds like you're the one moaning to me. We should be allowed to vent about whatever, everyone's problems are big to them. So pipe down

[Snowdown24]

Thank god most people aren’t moany like you OP!

Your not sad about anything so no one else can be?

By your thinking everyone should banish emotions because there is always someone worse off somewhere 🙄

Your not special OP and your feelings don’t trump others.....try being a bit more kind and a lot less moany!

[LittleEntrepeneur]

I actually thought I was going to explode earlier. Just for background, my business was closed down due to COVID and I had no income for 4 months. We are in Australia and the government has been giving out grants to businesses but unfortunately we did not qualify for anything.

Last month was particularly bad and there were a couple of days where we didn't have money for food. I was also not able to buy all of my son's medication. He is on 4 lots of meds and I could only afford one (no NHS here).

So my SIL is one of these people who does not like to work. She doesn't have children or health problems, she is just lazy. She has been getting $750 per week from the government due to COVID. So she was on Facebook earlier MOANING that the government were taking this money away in September and she would have to go back to normal dole. I have NEVER bashed anyone on benefits before, but my God I thought I would explode, I was so angry.

Sorry, I needed that moan !

[wanderings]

@MumsGoneToIceland absolutely this. We must not allow our feelings to become muzzled, as well as our faces; otherwise we are succumbing to the mass mind control exercise which we are being subjected to; and yes, I do believe this is happening. While I don't deny the virus exists, our heads are being manipulated every step of the way, and every aspect of health seems to have been thrown under the bus at the expense of Covid.

I will moan and moan while Boris the clown and his band of merry men continue to lie, gaslight and mess with our heads, threatening us like naughty children, treating the actual children and teenagers of England as if they don't matter, throwing manipulated figures at us, telling us as little about the exit strategy as they can, and making rules so complicated that nobody can follow them, hence many things opening later than they should. As far as I am concerned, not moaning and blindly accepting it is complicity in the chaotic authoritarianism, and the (vomits at having to say it) "new normal" in danger of becoming permanent. It dismays me that there has been barely a shred of protest about this level of state control, and we need to be getting angry about it. Boris said twelve weeks; it's now fifteen and counting, and we are nowhere near back to the old normal.

Call me what you like; murderer, anti-dementor, denier. The lockdown was never about eradicating the virus; it was about getting it under control, and now it seems to be about keeping us under control. I think we're entitled to moan while treatments are still being cancelled, the expensive Nightingale hospitals sit unused, millions of us fear for our jobs, children and teenagers are made to suffer because of something which barely affects them, and every day this chaos goes on, the worse will be the long-term consequences: recession, and deaths from lockdown (not from the virus). Boris won't care about those; by the time those are in the news, he'll have resigned, or been removed from the party.