What do you think of this idea of a wealth tax?

[LuluJakey1]

This is from The Guardian this afternoon. It is the third article I have seen in the Press two days promoting this idea.

www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/jul/06/arts-wealth-tax-rishi-sunak-nhs-public-services?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other

Personally, I think it is bonkers. She seems to be suggesting that ALL wealth in this country - houses, savings, pensions, shares/paintings etc should be subjected to a one off tax of 10% to get us out of the financial mess.

DH and I would have to find about £80,000 cash! We'd have to sell the house?

Yes- Yes it is a good idea and you are BU to criticise it.
No- It is an awful idea and you are right to criticise it.

Is she including Italian villas and Ferraris in the list of things to be taxed?

It will be middle earners as usual paying. I'd rather do a less stressful job for less money than be taxed more. I think a lot of people will feel the same.
As for adding money to mortgages - many people couldn't afford this, so people would lose their homes.
We should all pay more imo.

You have evaded the fact that Land and Buildings are hard to hide if and when a government decides to tax them

A cursory glance of these forums would reveal that I have stated a lot of the UKs ills are a result of political decisions, rather than natural laws.

The housing "crisis" ? Child poverty ? Inner city pollution.

Could all be solved if there was a political will. But there isn't so they aren't.

And for that, some - not all - but some people have to accept responsibility. It's hardly surprising when a political party with an agenda to keep the rich rich and the poor poor gets elected that the rich get richer and the poor get poorer.

Ultimately there are two sorts of people in this thread the world. The first say "lifes not fair, but we can work together to do our best to try and make it so for everyone."

The second take a slightly more selfish nuanced approach and say "Lifes not fair but as a winner, who gives a shit ?"

It tends to be the higher paid who work very hard and pay a lot of tax and care a lot and those who don't pay tax who are more than happy to do nothing and to be very much in favour of anyone who has a bit more money than they do to pay for their free ride in life.

I think a lot of high earners will reduce their hours rather than be taxed more. Why not join the PT workers and enjoy a better work/life balance.

Being taxed more would make my long commute and hours not as beneficial for my family.

@Xenia

It tends to be the higher paid who work very hard and pay a lot of tax and care a lot and those who don't pay tax who are more than happy to do nothing and to be very much in favour of anyone who has a bit more money than they do to pay for their free ride in life.

More bollocks. Nobody works harder or cares more than a care worker who’s paid buttons. There are plenty of hard working tax payers who believe those with the most should pay most.

there is no correlation between hard work and high pay.

There's a saying that if the people who worked the hardest got paid the most the African women would be the richest in the world.

Piglet,

There definitely is a correlation but it is a weak one. People who work harder tend to be paid more but there are lots of professions where people work hard for little pay (nurses, teachers etc) and plenty of professions where people don’t work that hard for a lot of pay (some investment bankers, some senior managers etc).

It is better to tax income or consumption rather than wealth, though. And I think taxing inheritance or wealth transfer is not a bad idea to stop family dynasties perpetuating wealth for no work.

My aunt has been extremely frugal all her life, no holidays, shopping trips, really lives very simply. It’s feels like she’d be penalised for her simple life which enabled her to buy a house. She might as well have rented and spent her money to make her life more pleasurable.

Yes, Pom. I call these proposed taxes on homes taxes on love. Those who stand beside their family and build a home are punished and often men who walk away on divorce , rent a 1 bed flat and spent the money on wine, women and song get off scot free.

On work and earnings I thought the UK had a big productivity problem and a lot of people choosing to work short hours or part time and that if they all worked say the 50 to 70 hours a week plenty of the high earners work (and indeed some of the low earners with 2 jobs) the country would be much better off.

Crikey there are some very sweeping and insulting statements being made about the adult population of the UK here. We were given a choice to vote for increased taxation at the last election. Most people didn’t vote for it because they decided it would not provide them with the things they wanted and this included measures to avoid inequality.

These voters are not stupid, greedy or immoral. And, they are not being duped by the 1 5 or 10 % of high earners and wealthy. It’s just childish and insulting to say that.

They wanted investment in jobs and housing. They wanted to Be a contributor not recipients. They wanted choice on what they consume and how they consume it. They rejected the offer of handouts and nationalisation.

Whether you like it or not this is part of a generational shift of the centre in UK politics. People want investment and growth from the private and the public sector. They also want to decide what to do with their accrued wealth. When they are dead or alive.

If you believe differently then I suggest you stop telling people they are stupid and greedy. As an influencing tactic it is ineffective.

Btw there has never been a correlation between hard work and pay. The correlation is between productivity and high pay.

I do feel if you work part time hours through choice - you shouldn’t expect to topped up by the state. I don’t mean people who have valid reasons why they can’t work more. There’s a really disappointing sense of entitlement sometimes.

They wanted investment in jobs and housing. They wanted to Be a contributor not recipients. They wanted choice on what they consume and how they consume it. They rejected the offer of handouts and nationalisation. [] Whether you like it or not this is part of a generational shift of the centre in UK politics. People want investment and growth from the private and the public sector. They also want to decide what to do with their accrued wealth. When they are dead or alive

If that is true, then a lot of people are going to be very disappointed.

@larrygrylls
It depends on what you class as working hard. Yes nurses work hard physically but investment bankers and senior managers have high levels of responsibility and that's what they are paid for. It's really simple to me - if you put footballers to one side - people are paid in accordance to the available skill set in the market, the responsibility they hold and how hard they work. If there is a shortage of people that can do the job then they will get paid more. There is not a shortage of people that can be a bin man. Doctors have higher levels of skill, mostly higher levels of intelligence which is why they can achieve the qualifications and more responsibility - so they get paid more than nurses. Nurses have higher levels of skill than a home help so they get paid more

@PigletJohn that there is no correlation between hard and responsible work and high pay is something that is spouted out by someone who has never had a senior position in an organisation. What I do is incomparable to what my cleanse does from stress level, hours, work life balance, qualifications required etc she couldn't do my job and she wouldn't want to but she gets less pay than me because I could do her job.

It’s feels like she’d be penalised for her simple life which enabled her to buy a house. She might as well have rented and spent her money to make her life more pleasurable.

I can pretty much guarantee renting over a lifetime would cost more than buying. Everyone I know in rented is there because they've never earned enough to save a deposit (or been given a deposit) to buy a house. Over their lifetime renting has cost loads more, and many of them have bought a house for their landlords. The idea people are renting because they've spent all their money on champagne is nonsense.

LemonTT i s right and many of us are absolutely delighted Corbyn is not now PM. I realise MN is divided between Labour and Tory voters but it is good we all speak to each other to understand the range of different views out there.

Indeed - on pay my lawyer daughters work harder than my delivery driver (full time PAYE) son obviously but also they have skills he doesn't have but they could do his job - drive a van just as loads of people can drive a van. it's dead easy as is cleaning the loo which most of us do at home already.

We might as a nation want to move to hardly anyone works and machines do it all - Harold Wilson told people in the 1970s that would happen or we might want each person to work a lot harder and pay a lot more tax. Some people will have choice to make but most people don't have too much choice - they need to work to pay the bills.

I think it is more likely Sunak will increase national insurance contributions possibly hugely for the higher paid, possibily remove the triple lock on pensions, probably increase rates of capital gains tax but probably not on homes. He needs something that will generate a lot of money quickly so it will need to be something that applies to most people eg basic rate of tax 25% not 20%. May be VAT 22% not 20%

[quote whereorwhere]@PigletJohn that there is no correlation between hard and responsible work and high pay is something that is spouted out by someone who has never had a senior position in an organisation. What I do is incomparable to what my cleanse does from stress level, hours, work life balance, qualifications required etc she couldn't do my job and she wouldn't want to but she gets less pay than me because I could do her job. [/quote]
What a ridiculous statement. I worked at board level for most of my career and was well remunerated for it. I didn’t work a fraction as hard as a care worker and my contribution to society was far less. I look back on my working life and the stress and lack of work/life balance and think how ridiculous it was to put myself through it.

How do you know your cleaner couldn’t do your job? With the right qualifications and opportunities they probably could. Equally there are low paid jobs I definitely couldn’t do - I’m certainly not good at cleaning for anyone to pay me for it. And I take my hat off to care workers, anyone who can wipe someone else’s arse multiple times a day gets my upmost respect.

And I take my hat off to care workers, anyone who can wipe someone else’s arse multiple times a day gets my upmost respect

Absolutely agree, I would really struggle to work in DM's are home. They get a lot of abuse too (from DM mostly). However, it doesn't change the fact that anyone "could" do it, in fact much of the rest of the world looks after their families in old age, it is much the same as looking after babies, we all do it, can do it, could do it. Very little training is required, mostly just compassion and endless pits of patience, and a good strong stomach.

@Baaaahhhhh I did care work when I was doing my A levels. I really affaire anyone who does this long term - there were some really dedicated and caring people. They should be paid more.
But I agree, highly trained/ skilled jobs do need to be financially rewarded.

*admire anyone

bankers and senior managers have high levels of responsibility

Only in their own minds. In the real world they don't even begin to compare with a care worker who might be responsible for the lives of ever one in their care.

And when there's blame to go around it seems that no one is responsible in banking, certainly.

"Responsible" for me is akin to an airline pilot. Once those wheels leave the ground, they are responsible for 300 maybe 400 souls, not just next years bonus or the reception colour scheme.

I work in corporate finance and am very well paid but what I do is irrelevant compared to what a nurse does at a fraction of my salary. The UK has a big problem with the low pay to public sector workers. It’s no wonder many newly qualified nurses look for work in other countries where their skills are recognised and properly remunerated.

I agree with this. There is a perception that nursing is quite basis task based, but there are many types of advanced practitioner roles - nurses who assess, prescribe, devise treatment plans etc