What do you think of this idea of a wealth tax?

[LuluJakey1]

This is from The Guardian this afternoon. It is the third article I have seen in the Press two days promoting this idea.

www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/jul/06/arts-wealth-tax-rishi-sunak-nhs-public-services?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other

Personally, I think it is bonkers. She seems to be suggesting that ALL wealth in this country - houses, savings, pensions, shares/paintings etc should be subjected to a one off tax of 10% to get us out of the financial mess.

DH and I would have to find about £80,000 cash! We'd have to sell the house?

Yes- Yes it is a good idea and you are BU to criticise it.
No- It is an awful idea and you are right to criticise it.

No shocking that we don’t all think exactly the same Does make me wonder though whether the government should ask for voluntary payments. Plenty of people seem to be willing to pay more tax. Or is it just virtue signalling? I wonder how many would really pay more given the chance.

I wonder how many would really pay more given the chance

We’re about to find out. It won’t be voluntary though.

A massive one off wealth tax won’t happen. They may sneak in a tiny one which can gradually be raised, yet another tool in the tax system. Ultimately, the truly rich would dodge it via trusts and tax planning and it would end up as yet another raid on the middle classes. And, with Brexit, we need to be seen as a normal pleasant place for the wealthy of the World to live.

Additionally MPs are, on average, wealthy and it would be turkeys voting for Christmas.

If you really want to redistribute wealth, allow capitalism to do its work and stop bailing out the asset rich via bank bailouts, zero interest rates and money printing.

@RedtreesRedtrees

Ah, I understand you now.

Due to your ignorance, you think that the common people are asked, each week or each month, "Would you like to pay some tax?" before PAYE and NI are deducted from their earnings.

What country did you grow up in, where that was the practice?

Also a ‘wealth’ tax already exists, on pension pots over £1mio. Given £1mio gives a pitiful annuity nowadays, it is another middle class tax.

The problem is the truly wealthy are hard to tax as they plan well and move money between countries.

No piglet, I don’t want to pay any more tax because I think I contribute enough already. But the people suggesting I should ‘pay my share’ on this thread and other threads are falling over themselves to say they’d happily pay more tax. It’s just virtue signalling - I guarantee they’d change their tune if the government decided to help itself to their assets. You and I will never agree on this - I think I pay enough, you think you’re entitled to more of what I have 🤷‍♀️

Just out of interest @RedtreesRedtrees, why do you keep saying “you”? The government has jurisdiction over tax, not random MN posters.

Um pretty sure an elected government choosing to use its democratic mandate to raise taxes doesn't come under the legal definition of theft. Straight or otherwise.

@RedtreesRedtrees

"I don’t want to pay any more tax because I think I contribute enough already."

My god, you really do think you're special.

Time to get out of that entitled bubble of yours.

or are you just having a bit of fun by posting provocative nonsense?

Piglet do you understand the concept of a wealth tax? We are “special” by definition because we’re being treated differently to everyone else. How much of our wealth do you think the government’s entitled to take?

How much of my income do you think the government's entitled to take? how much of my wealth do you think the government's entitled to take? Do you think the government is entitled to pass laws forbidding me to drive my car at 155mph through the twown centre? Do you think the government is entitled to charge me 20% VAT when I buy a bar of chocolate?

The answer is, of course, that the citizens of the country elect a government to govern it.

You are mistaken in thinking that I approve of a wealth tax on net worth, or that I approve of this government, or that I want to take any of your money.

You just throw in irrelevant ideas because you don't like people saying that those with the broadest shoulders should be expected to carry the heaviest loads.

@RedtreesRedtrees

I wouldn't worry Redtrees. It'll be the least able to afford it (as always) who'll carry the biggest burden from this.

Well I do support a wealth tax.

My reasons are that I am keen on hard work, self-reliance and family values. In that respect I'm very much an old-fashioned right-winger.

Over the last two generations we have seen enormous asset inflation, which economists agree is set to continue. This doesn't reward hard work because getting richer due to asset inflation doesn't require any work. It doesn't encourage self-reliance because the value of assets (houses, shares etc) are created by a functioning society, therefore other people, furthermore, it sets up those who don't have wealth, to fail. And it doesn't reward family values because inequality in society, through the cost of housing, has put family life under enormous pressure: we see this in all manner of ways which society now treats as a virtue rather than a necessity.

While I am quite prepared to accept that some of the very rich owe their wealth in part to their hard work, it's utter arrogance and very un-self aware to believe that's the only cause. Every very rich person owes their wealth in part to one or more of the following things: good upbringing, a decent education, peaceful well-ordered surroundings, the ability to do business under the rule of law in an environment with properly maintained infrastructure, employees who work hard and well, and plain good luck.

I also believe in a cohesive, peaceful low-crime society constructed on the middle class, and governed by the most able, not the most wealthy. It is generally agreed that this is being destroyed by economics. The results will be bad for everyone, even the very rich who will hide behind their security gates as they do in unequal societies like South Africa or Brazil for example.

Someone mentioned 1 Timothy 6:10 above. Here is another Bible reference: Matthew 25:29: For everyone who has will be given more, till he has enough and to spare; and everyone who has nothing will forfeit even what he has. That's what's happening right now - except that unlike in the parable of the talents, those who have, have not earned their additional wealth.

The purpose of a wealth tax is to redistribute this entirely unearned wealth so that everyone gets a fair chance and everyone has the chance to do a fair day's work for a fair day's pay.

Now tell me, what's wrong with that?

@parker

you may work hard and are paid well but a minimum wage care worker, binman, shop assistant etc also may work hard but are not financially rewarded as you are.

This is such a ridiculous argument. A bin man works hard - in a slow skilled job that anyone could do - during their 9-5 shift. Then they go home and chill out

Someone who has a skill set that is less widely available (as such the market is smaller) does a long commute to work, works in a job that is responsible for turning over millions or employing hundreds etc and then never switches of work even at the weekends works harder than any bin man will ever do. That's why they get paid more. If I didn't get financial reward for my job, for which I compromise my family life and social life I would work behind a till. Anyone can do that - not anyone can - or wants to - do my job. That's why I make more money than my bin man

@tompinch
I do get your point. The problem is that house prices are not accessible money. I couldn't afford the house I live in now if it were not for property inflation and I certainly couldn't afford to pay a percentage of its value in tax. You can't tax people on assets this way - it would be different if the market was stable

Where,

A flat 10% wealth tax would be ridiculous and unworkable. However a tapered tax starting at 1% and rising to maybe 10% for massive wealth (£25mio+?) could be made workable.

For those who choose to keep all their wealth in their primary residence (and this is a choice) it could be added to the mortgage or the government could take an equity instance in the property repayable on death.

I am not a big fan of wealth tax, though. There are more efficient ways to raise money from the wealthy including equalising CGT to top rate of income tax and continuing to look carefully (But, ideally, fairly) at ‘tax planning’.

You are currently taxed more on your earned (PAYE) income in this country than your learned income...wealth and assests. To pay for the country's debt I do think it's a good idea that the rich, wealthy and comfortably off contribute in paying more tax.

Sorry ...should read 'unearned income' not learned income!

Emma,

‘Unearned’ income is an old style leftie phrase meaning investment income. This is taxed already at your top tax rate.

Wealth and assets are not income.

I don’t think the UK will introduce a wealth tax. Some other European countries have tried (including Belgium where I’m from) but it’s not been very successful. Too many people who should pay have hidden their assets.

Land and houses are hard to hide, though.

@PigletJohn

Land and houses are hard to hide, though.

But ownership of said can be when such things are held "in trust".

Do you think I could stop paying council tax or business rates by putting ownership in a trust?

@PigletJohn

Do you think I could stop paying council tax or business rates by putting ownership in a trust?

Are you landed gentry ?

Do you have enough money to have it's own postcode ?

Then don't be so silly.

@ DGRossetti

You have evaded the fact that Land and Buildings are hard to hide if and when a government decides to tax them

If you were a person charged with increasing the tax take, I'm sure you would reflect which things are difficult to hide, impossible to take overseas, and worth a lot of money.

For all you know, I might be Viscount Rothermere.

If, on the other hand, I am a person who already pays taxes which bear some relation to the value of my real estate, I might have nothing to fear.