To feel nervous - does anyone know what the 13 Universities facing closure are?

[josben]

DS1 and DS2 are both planning to start Uni in September, and I have just read this article which is very unsettling - does anyone have any idea of what uni's in the below article will be facing closure ?

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-53280965

Cambridge Uni: that famously failing shithole

I don’t understand the poly snobbery.

Or the degree snobbery tbh. Some people have very specific interests and not everyone goes to university with the sole aim of improving their career prospects!

Beebityboo Teacher recruitment isn't my field, but anecdotally the teacher shortage means that a low ranked institution may be less of a problem than with some other professions

This I worrying me as the uni my son's girlfriend is at has been written about being in trouble. She has just finished her first year.

Universities who rely on a lot of international students will struggle. Since Brexit they’ve lost students who were funded by the EU, and now they’ve also lost students from further afield due to corona. My ex went to Sunderland which had a high proportion of Chinese students, I can’t see them coming out of this unscathed.

I actually think quite a lot of young people will take a gap year. They obviously might struggle to get jobs and can’t travel, but I also think some will consider whether they want to pay £9k to be taught online and not enjoy a student social life.

Cambridge Uni: that famously failing shithole

I suspect they were referring to Anglia Ruskin rather than the better known University of Cambridge ...

One could go to an ex poly to do an undergraduate and head to an RG for Masters. There’s the assumption that ex poly graduates are all heading straight for the job market.

What Miljea said. And I agree with several PP about the number of degrees where a student racks up debt when they should be learning on the job or have an employer funding a sandwich course. I've been saying much the same since the whole poly=>uni instant transformation.

Universities are ranked - by employers. DH recruits internationally in a very competitive field and experience has taught him to be completely ruthless.

I think she means ARU, which has a campus in Cambridge.

And as mentioned up thread, Mansfield doesnt have a university, West Notts College offers some courses for NTU and will start offering NTU Nursing courses from next year at a new building there, now that NTU has started offering MH and Adult nursing.

"Cambridge Arts and Sciences Limited" is listed on the Institute of Fiscal Studies report linked to earlier as a 'provider'. Wonder if that's what is meant by 'Cambridge', rather than Ruskin?

beebityboo - I'm not particularly knowledgeable but if I were you I would go ahead. Sometimes these articles are planted to put pressure on the Government to produce cash, sometimes they're not. I would bet that alternative provision will be offered if things do go pear-shaped. Just go ahead. There is always hope.

Crossing fingers it's not University of Hertfordshire as I did a short course there recently and the teaching was cracking.

It would be a national loss if the SOAS goes under.

I have zero skin in that game, but surely they're a massively important institution in regard to international relations?

There’s the assumption that ex poly graduates are all heading straight for the job market

There is also an assumption that ex-polys have poor graduate employment. Not true.

I’m pretty sure thedancingbear was being sarky!

Howabout Agreed, it would be terrible to lose SOAS. I think every effort will be made to keep that from happening.

I also think that at the end of the day, the government would bail out some or all universities, however much they are saying they won't right now. The impact of closing a university on smaller towns and cities is enormous.

Miljea SOAS is definitely important within IR but it also has far more competition than it used to.

@Puzzledandpissedoff

Well, that sounds like the end of Derby ... the mistake so many made was to call themselves universities in the first place and imagine they could justify the same fees as the majors

What makes you say that about Derby Puzzled?

Since Brexit they’ve lost students who were funded by the EU.

The EU has never funded students at UK universities, apart from via the Erasmus scheme. Since we are still in the transition period Erasmus is still running & EU students are still studying at UK universities, paying the same fees as UK students & funded by the student loan system.

I wouldn't be surprised if SOAS went under, largely because it was already in trouble and running a long-term deficit. That would be a smal tragedy, as it is a unique institution with true global value.

It's not always who you would expect though; the Economist ran a recent article on the vulnerability of London Business School. It's prestigious and can charge eye-watering fees for its courses, but the salaries that it pays out are also eye-watering by university standards, and it depends on short executive education courses for a lot of its funds, which have also fallen off a cliff as corporate L&D budgets get axed.

I don’t think they’re allowed to attract more U.K. students. Caps were put in place at the start of Covid to stop them doing thjs

Caps have been in place for quite a while - HEFCE tells universities how many home students they can take. It's not new (but I get that it's been reintroduced).

What makes you say that about Derby Puzzled?

Quite simply, the ranking they've historically had
I've just checked the latest stats and am absolutely astounded to see them ranked at 26, and that's with a designation of Q3 and a ranking of "least selective"

It's a while since I've been involved so I'll have to do a bit of checking, but my instinctive reaction's to wonder if there's been a colossal massaging of figures ... something I suspect a number of major employers will share

I'm a prof in a fairly high ranking university. The problems pre-date Covid for all UK universities, as most of them failed to take into account the falling birth rate around 18 years ago, with the result that there are fewer applicants for places. That coupled with the (in my opinion) relentless diversification of subjects in order to try and attract more and more niche students, has led to aggressive marketing strategies being adopted in order to fulfil business needs. Tie both of those things together and you have a recipe for where we are currently.

Most lecturers worth their salt hate the idea of higher education becoming fiscally driven, but the need to make money sadly replaced 'learning' and academic quality. During my very long career, I have been quite astonished at the quality of some of the courses offered not only within my own institution but also others.

@myusernamewastakenbyme

He is a UKC student coming to the end of his masters degree.

As someone who works at UKC (and whose job is one of those at risk) I can say that Uni Kent is cutting staff, but it's not at the point of going bust. Most Unis are cutting - with Brexit causing concerns for non UK students it was always going to be a tricky year, and now Covid scrubbing a terms worth of rental income (along with all the extra expense for moving everything online) recruitment this year is looking low.

I see comments about UKC and Christchurch - like all, they are both struggling. Christchurch have cut salaries, UKC not that bad yet, and UKC is looking at a pay freeze (if accepted, the aim is to minimise job losses).

www.kentonline.co.uk/canterbury/news/university-staff-face-20-pay-cut-229389/

Even Cambridge is looking at cuts, and not renewing fixed term contracts - no uni is in a good place right now, but I'd not worry about UKC going bust and vanishing. Look at Unis near the bottom of the league tables, who don't have research income to help them through this - that's where the problematic ones are.

Equally, if you are looking to go to Uni this year (or have kids that are) I'd think carefully before pulling out this year. Competition will be up as things get back to normal, there is a lot of help available this year (sure, it'll not be a normal start of term!). As someone else said, the office for students ensures that students don't lose out if their course stops running (including a uni going bust!).

Working in a uni isn't a great place to be right now, but UKC isn't likely to go bust, just down size a bit for a while.

Would be interested to know as I work at a Uni.
Like others have said, those relying on international students would likely be hit harder.
Not sure it is as simple as that though.
Feels like my uni has been on an expansion plan forever, expensive new buildings cropping up all over the place. I would imagine that kind of expansion model relies on investment and a certain dependence on growth. There could be a few Unis that have let their reserves run low and the very least will look to cut costs ie. courses and staff. All speculation though.
Will make sure my CV is up to date & as long as there isn’t a complete dearth of jobs, hopefully go freelance and pick up some remote contracting if I get the boot.

@SueEllenMishke It’s worse than that, there’s the assumption ex poly graduates NEVER get employment, except to stack shelves in supermarkets. At least I’m living proof that’s not true.

There’s also the assumption the only way to get a job after graduation is via a graduate traineeship. That is just one way I keep telling the young people I know, many get graduate jobs through agencies, newspaper adverts (in my day Telegraph, Guardian) and specialist magazines.

It's a while since I've been involved so I'll have to do a bit of checking, but my instinctive reaction's to wonder if there's been a colossal massaging of figures ... something I suspect a number of major employers will share

I’ve had an interest and been watching the tables again over the past two years - having been hugely out of date - and have noticed some distinctly odd things. An example being the “University of Suffolk” (or similarly named - I never heard of it before) topping at least one subject table. Then looked at all the different tables for that region and noticed more usual things. Particularly at a plate glass institution. There’s obviously quite a lot going on there and it seems similar is happening in most regions. I’m sure a lot of the detail is flying over my head but it was worrying.