To feel nervous - does anyone know what the 13 Universities facing closure are?

[josben]

DS1 and DS2 are both planning to start Uni in September, and I have just read this article which is very unsettling - does anyone have any idea of what uni's in the below article will be facing closure ?

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-53280965

I think the concern is merited. We're looking at accommodation that ranges from 7 - 12k a year. We are very average salary rise and that's loads more than I pay for my mortgage. We need to be realistic with my son if universities are going bust

There's so much misunderstanding about different university types on here. I've taught in RG and non-RG and class was a bigger difference than talent (and any work I awarded a first in non-RG would have got a first in RG). Not everyone gets the same opportunities at school or values the same qualities in universities.

Hasn't Sunderland just opened a medical school?

Yes. That doesn't, in itself, mean it's financially secure.

Regarding the post you were replying to, though, I think most universities were already running voluntary severance schemes and many were already planning compulsory redundancies before Covid-19 appeared. Sunderland doesn't look much out of line with the sector in general, apart from cancelling all its non-vocational degree programmes. I'm not sure what the motive for this was, since fees from humanities & social science courses usually subsidize courses that require more expensive facilities and more staff. I presume they just felt they couldn't recruit enough students to those courses to make them viable.

@Beebityboo

I have no choice but to get a history degree from a lower ranked uni due to being unable to locate. I'm really, really hoping that won't matter once I've gotten my PGCE. I wish I could go back in time and stop myself from dropping out of a very highly ranked rg university but I was completely miserable .

As a governor at both a Primary and a Special school who has sat on the panel at over 100 interviews, I can say that where you degree comes from doesn't matter at all, we may look at what your degree is in, but as long as you have it it doesnt matter if it comes from Oxbridge, RG or Ex-poly.

It’s not Solent. It is always been managed in a fiscally conservative way and has a number of very high demand courses in certain fields. It’s also less reliant on international students than a number of other universities. Nobody was furloughed and there has been no compulsory redundancies. Their student recruitment figures are very similar to last year’s. In spite of the snobbery around some types of university places like Solent that can provide state of the art teaching by industry leaders in very specific areas are still very much in demand, regardless of what the league tables say.

Looking more closely at the report linked upthread, am I right in thinking that 13 may be singled out as at risk, but that may not mean that all of these 13 have their fate sealed?

"A friend was due to go to a university when aged 18, the course was cut (this was 1981)"...
Yes, similarly I knew a few people about 6 years ago who wanted less popular courses at places still very much going strong, and these did not run, quite late in the day. I would predict quite a lot of courses being cut, at least temporarily, even in 'safe' quarters, in favour of cheaper or more successful ones. Also, from recent experience, there can be quite a polarisation in who is contracted to teach on courses - potentially a difference in a tutor with a secure position, and visiting tutors/academics on contracts that may not be full time, no longer than a year and then new terms offered if the demand is (still) there. Can't tell yet whether the latter will be clear casualties of this year, or whether it will actually be an (even more) essential feature of the sector.

am I right in thinking that 13 may be singled out as at risk, but that may not mean that all of these 13 have their fate sealed?

Not really no. The IFS have written a report which says the university sector will lose between 7% and 50% of its income over the next couple of years. Which is a huge range and makes the report (surprisingly considering its authors) pretty useless.

The 13 they highlight are not on any official risk list at all (bar perhaps three or four) which the OfS will be monitoring.

Interestingly many of the institutions disparaged in this thread actually are exposed to very little risk and have very sound and cautious approaches to financial management.

I'll repeat what I said earlier - if an institution goes under, or more likely for the 'slightly at risk' publicly funded ones is taken over, the students will not be screwed - there will be ways they can finish their degrees. Furthermore publicly funded ones have a much longer lead in time to any sort of closure - they won't close in a matter of few months. The private providers on the other hand might.

This is interesting.

" I have no choice but to get a history degree from a lower ranked uni due to being unable to locate. I'm really, really hoping that won't matter once I've gotten my PGCE.
I wish I could go back in time and stop myself from dropping out of a very highly ranked rg university but I was completely miserable "

travellingspoon Q: "As a governor at both a Primary and a Special school who has sat on the panel at over 100 interviews, I can say that where you degree comes from doesn't matter at all, we may look at what your degree is in, but as long as you have it it doesnt matter if it comes from Oxbridge, RG or Ex-poly."

Um. How magnanimous of you! 😊

Might it transpire that you are on 'the panel' of average, not very highly regarded schools? Your largesse at being blind to Oxbridge, versus 'ex-poly' (versus a cobble together of NVQs, distance Ed etc)... might be because Oxbridge aren't clamouring at your door ? 😉

It sounds like being on Admissions at London Met. 'We don't care if you have 3 A stars in STEM, or no A levels at all, but 'experience at the University of Life'... (except we have far more applicants in the latter category, against none in the first...)...

Nothing better to do before bed so I’ll wheel this one out again (have posted it before on MN).
Some years ago there was shock and horror when Oxford Brookes’ History dept was ranked above Oxford Uni’s. I think it was 5* vs 5. The Today (or PM) programme invited representatives of both universities to explain. Oxford didn’t respond, but a nice chap from Brookes said that the difference was that Oxford hired people they knew and told them what to teach, whereas Brookes hired people who were good and let them teach what they wanted.

What a spiteful post miljea. The post you are mocking was in response to another poster who is now stressing about her decision to go to university as a result of information read on this thread. Have some compassion.

Plus the poster was right anyway....

N

Sorry!

I was going to say miljea has a point. It's a well known fact that unless a primary teacher has an RG degree, preferably Oxbridge, they will be utterly ill equipped to teach the under 11s.

Oh, wait...

Someone should probably let the trainee teachers in my faculty know they're wasting their time as despite the face we're consistently ranked top in the UK for teacher training their award will, unfortunately, be from an ex-poly ....shame that 🙄

@SueEllenMishke

Someone should probably let the trainee teachers in my faculty know they're wasting their time as despite the face we're consistently ranked top in the UK for teacher training their award will, unfortunately, be from an ex-poly ....shame that 🙄

It's the kids they'll be teaching I feel sorry for. Some of them might have parents on MN who'll know exactly the quality of their degree

My son has had his Msc course pulled by Winchester - are they wobbling does anyone know? He's hoping to pick up another place in clearing but if that doesn't work he was planning to take up the offered place next year. My other son is due to start a degree at Bristol in September, are they in trouble? I'm well paranoid now!

sue-elken I'm not 'mocking'; I'm suggesting that the 'panel member' may not be in the 'enviable' position to disregard Oxbridge graduates in favour of 'ex-Poly' graduates for teaching jobs.

I actually didn't know Oxbridge offered PGCE!

Every day's a school day, eh? 😉

Ada I'd be a bit worried about Winchester. They've spent what I'd imagine is millions in student housing and a huge, new 'Business school'; and have large numbers of Chinese students.

I work at a top 10 (non RG). We’ll be in a decent position end this FY - lots of savings to find next FY. Voluntary redundancy scheme and recruitment ‘cool’ both in place; more were furloughed than should’ve been imo putting pressure on the rest of us. Hoping to hang on to my job even though working through covid with kids has been driving me crackers.

Miljea DS thinks the same, if he can't get a place this year ( unfortunately he is already tied to a housing contract so he's hoping to get Southampton in clearing and commute ) he's going to shop around next year and use the Winchester offer as back-up just in case it goes poof. Poor bugger, it's such a mess.

miljea Cambridge offer a whole range of PGCEs

Been hearing worrying things about Kingston for a couple of years now.

I'm worried about Kingston,too.

Really? Kingston?

@SueEllenMishke

miljea Cambridge offer a whole range of PGCEs

I did my PGCE in Cambridge at the Department of Education not Homerton. Based on what colleagues did in their PGCEs it wasn't an exceptionally good one.