Is this Midwife out of line?

[SistineScreamer]

Curious as to what others would think. My daughter just had her first DC yesterday. She had an elective section and is still in hospital. My daughter is young, she’s 24, Not married (and has no intention to) but been with her DP since they were 16. She’s had some MH issues, stemmed from ex husband of mine. This is all noted in her file and is a manageable, she’s had to come off her medication during the pregnancy because of risks to the baby but she was more than willing to do this. She’s in a private room and not on a ward. All this information is important as I assume this is why she was treated the way she was.

She rang me 30 minutes ago in tears. Telling me one of the midwives assigned to her has been horrible to her. We’ll call her Midwife A.

All this is what she says happened - First, DD had baby in a onsie and bib, midwife A came in and commented that the bib was too big for baby, took baby out of DD’s arms and removed the bib. Even if the bib was too big why completely undermine her like that? Next, DD brought wipes for her face, body etc they were baby brand water wipes as her skin is overly sensitive to anything else. Midwife proceeded to lecture DD that these were wrong and cotton buds must be used with water instead, proceeded to bin wipes then leave the room.

Half an hour later Midwife A came back in to ask DD about her feeding choices. DD was sexually assaulted and does not feel comfortable breastfeeding, her choice. Midwife proceeded to give her the breast is best talk, asking why she wouldn’t consider breastfeeding, basically making her feel like shit for picking formula. DD mentioned she’d purchased a perfect prep machine for the formula (you know the ones that give the perfect shot of hot water at night so you don’t have to faff about with the kettle?) this woman nodded, left the room and came back 15 minutes later with a print out of the perfect prep machine....asking DD to confirm if this was what she was talking about. Nodding and tutting. What the fuck? Even if she wanted to know what DD was talking about, why print it out and bring it to her? Why not look it up herself?

Next issue came with the drip that was in DD’s hand, it was ripping the skin, physically pulling up the skin. She asked Midwife A if she could take it out or change it, to be told no nothing could be done. She’d just have to suck it up. An hour after she was told this another midwife came in, Midwife B, she begged midwife B to take it out and showed her what it was doing to her hand. Midwife B promptly took it out stating that there was no problem. Midwife A came back for her checks, asked DD what happened to the drop. DD explained that midwife B took it out, midwife A mumbled something about how that couldn’t be right and she’d have to check that ‘story’ right away.

DD is still vulnerable after birth, can’t move yet because of the catheter and has to be changed by this woman who she feels uncomfortable with and intimidated by. This woman has to handle her naked, change her sheets and I feel from what she’s saying it’s making her MH worse. She says she feels like Midwife A is talking about her with the other midwife (not B) on duty who she seems friendly with, shared looks, little smirks, off comments.

The looks and such could be DD’s dislike for this midwife raring up. But the rest, is this normal! I feel like she’s over stepped the mark and made my child feel low because of her age and choices. Should we ignore this?

I'd make a complaint.

In my experience they don't look at anything in your notes. I was so mentally unwell soon after birth and no one cared or even noticed, I even told a midwife I wanted to walk out of the hospital without my baby and I was scared of him, I didn't want to go near him, I thought he was evil. In hindsight I was really not right, whether it was stress or sleep deprivation I don't know but either way they did nothing. It was when I got home that MH services were involved and I was nearly sectioned.

She definitely shouldn't of thrown her wipes away! Cheeky mare. Tell your daughter to mention it to the next staff member! Say why did she throw MY wipes away indeed them. Even if they were for the baby you don't throw them. What a waste. 99% of parents use wipe anyway. Huggies and water wipes are especially safe for new babies. I do understand cottonwool is best for a start. But it's not life and death!

Other issue with her not being a child and sticking up for herself. I know she's an adult. Issue is she's vulnerable in an awful sense, how this woman is treating her, she's confined to the bed still, this woman has to change her sheets and see her naked - which she hates because of how she's made her feel. DD'a MH is fragile, she's terrified that if she says something out of turn then she'll be reported to SS.

This seems wildly out of context for some. But she's a younger mother with MH issues, we've had this conversation so many times. She's afraid to make waves incase they take her baby. It's a completely ingrained fear. So, if she can't speak up I will.

Make sure you get the name of head of nursing to address your complaint to.

@SistineScreamer is she allowed visitors?

I went to he'll and back trying to breastfeed ds. When I was of with dd I said I had not decided when I had my booking apt and explained why. Midwife nodded and wrote breastfeeding in the intention box. I called her on it and was told by was better and I had 6 months to make up my mind.

I was 38 and made a formal complaint and noted I would not be attending further appointments unless they could provide staff who listened and would respect my wishes. Thereafter I saw only the consultant.

@Areyouactuallyseriousrightnow

Sounds like her manner was brusque and lacking empathy, but other than that I don't really think she did anything wrong. Please don’t you or your daughter take her manner personally, midwives in this country are extremely short staffed, and typically dealing singlehandedly with high pressure potentially life or death situations, and I’m sure this is sometimes unfortunately reflected in a less compassionate manner than we would like or expect. Focus on the fact that your grandchild was delivered safely, your daughter is well, and don’t take any notice of the grumpy unsympathetic midwife, because it’s not important now, congratulations!

Sorry but that’s bollocks.

I was short staffed on my ward. I was often alone with 8 patients on an acute mental health ward. They would say the most awful things because of their illnesses.

I never once treated anyone with anything other than compassion and understanding, even while working for two hours over a 12 hour shift waiting for agency staff to turn up.

There is no reason to provide anything but superior care no matter how tired or over worked the HCP. It’s their job.

I do not understand some of these responses. When you have just had a baby you feel.so vulnerable (or in my experience I did) and I was constantly worried I was not good enough or not doing things right. I am able to articulate myself and work in a role where quite often I advocate for others. However, there is power inherent within a midwife's role and when you are dependent on them it is not easy to stand up for yourself if you feel they are not treating you properly.

I would definitely speak to someone in charge and advise them that this attitude is not conducive to your daughters MH. She needs a protective and supportive environment.

Appalling.

The wipes are your daughter's property. Fine to advise her against using them, but they weren't hers to throw in the bin.

And railing about breastfeeding to a woman who has told her she has personal reasons for not doing it is utterly unacceptable. There's probably a woman in that hospital every couple of weeks who doesn't want to breastfeed because of sexual assault. Any midwife worth her salt should understand that this isn't an uncommon situation and that berating women is unacceptable.

her attitude stinks. Your daughter has every right to refuse care from this midwife and ask for someone else. If she feels up to it a complaint with Pals might be useful.

Do you think your daughter could bring herself to address this mw directly the next time she says something rude op? Ime this is the best way to stop this type of bullying behaviour. The next time she's rude, your daughter could say "I am finding your tone really rude, can you stop bossing me around". She may well fine the mw is more mindful of how she speaks to her after that.

Complain on your daughters behalf if she can’t. My midwife was so rude the first thing she said on our first home visit was “let’s try for a natural birth next time eh?”. Still regret not complaining, she must’ve upset a lot of mums since.

That midwife does not sound like she should working in a health-care environment.

I am not fragile, in fact I've got a good thick skin, but I remember how my ex was able to reduce me to tears, ten days after my baby was born. All the information about baby-care should have been given in a kind, respectful manner and she had no right to throw anyone's property into the bin. Please, please report her

I think it's really upsetting to see how many people seem to think women should put up with shitty behaviour from midwives because they're stressed and short staffed. I'm still on antidepressants after 14 years largely related to my horror experience on the post natal ward. My GP told me once that he could retire early if he had a few quid for every patient who had been left with long term mental health problems stemming from their treatment by midwives.

Even these posts saying that after 24 hours she should be up and walking about. Well, if you're refused pain relief, as is often the case, it becomes almost impossible.

Your daughter should complain.

That's appalling. Her manner is atrocious. I would explain to her supervisor (yes midwives have one) that this woman's adversarial manner is upsetting your daughter and insist on a different nurse. Your daughter doesn't have to engage with her

Some midwives are awful and if your daughter genuinely felt upset, then she should complain. So many take advantage of first time mothers, especially younger ones like your daughter.

Making excuses for a mw’s poor bedside manor is just disrespectful to all women.

A women is at her most vulnerable after giving Birth if you don’t have the bedside manor for the job then get out of the job. No excuses no yeah but maybe just her tone or busy day. No nothing. They are looking after women who have just given birth to a new human being for the first or millionth time it’s still a very scary/exhausting/learning experience as every baby and very birth is different for every mum.

I apologise if I can't reply for a while - have just had another phone call from DD to come to hospital ASAP. Short version midwife A tired to lecture DD again about BFing - DD told her to please leave. She wouldn't, DD upset and told her to leave her alone. Midwife A called DD hysterical and wanted to take baby. Will update if I can.

Regardless of whether the midwife did anything wrong or not (and from what you've said I think she's been rude and unprofessional), your DD should never be made to feel inadequate or wrong because of her choices. FWIW I had to get a morning after pill after I was raped as a teenager and was given a load of grief for not using protection.

She's going to make a safeguarding referral you need to intervene

OP ignore anyone saying midwife acted fine. They are clearly just as cold hearted and rude as the midwife in question.

It sounds like a horrible time for your DD and I think it's actually especially disgusting at a time like this when they know people can't have visits from loved ones!! She sounds like a vile bully and I bet she wouldn't act the same around someone older or more assertive.

Yes of course your DD is tired and emotional after giving birth - EVEN MORE REASON to be kind to her. Don't be a midwife if you have zero compassions.

The wipes? Doesn't matter if they WERE for baby! Midwifes can give advice but they should NEVER act in a judgmental way or throw out property! She didn't have dettol wipes for fuck sake, they clearly state "newborn" on the packet and it's up to your DD what she uses for the baby in that respect. I used wipes my DS from day dot and will do so with my next unless she was sensitive to them for any reason.

Breastfeeding - doesn't matter whether she was sexually assaulted or not! If she doesn't want to do it, she doesn't have to do it! Again advice can be offered but in a NON judgemental way but it's pretty clear these days that a lot of people just don't want to breastfeed and that's ok! It's not abuse to use formula 🙄 (and this is coming from someone who chose to breastfeed)

The bib thing - again. Easily solved - the vile judgemental MW could have just said "be careful with that bib and don't leave it on baby unattended as it's poses risks such as....

She is clearly just a horrible old cow and all of these things could have easily been dealt with so much better. She sounds like she's really in the wrong line of work!!! It's not the 40s anymore...

Anyway! Congratulations on your GD and I hope your DD can come home soon 🙏🏼❤️

I hope your DD is ok, make sure you put in a complaint about midwife A. That treatment is horrible. No new mother should have a baby taken from her arms unless there is an actual danger to the baby.

And I had the same with breastfeeding, albeit I wasn't not breastfeeding for different reasons. I really think this should stop. I have complained to my local maternity unit that I think this negatively affected my mental health.

Midwife sounds horrible, I’m not overly a fan of midwives tbh they seem to think they know it all and are superior 4 kids later and am a nurse so have knowledge and understanding but really felt I wasn’t listened to and many other issues - 22 with first so young but not daft but also had pnd.

This issue if she’s got previous MH issues a bad/traumatic experience whilst admitted can often lead to pnd or worse there are midwives who specialise in post natal mental health you could call and ask if there is anyone available for your daughter - although perhaps more likely on tomorrow. Hopefully shift will change soon but horrible for her to be at the mercy of this woman whilst so vulnerable, I literally left at 9am after having my son at midnight if I could have run from the place I would.
Hope your daughter has a better night , she can ask for someone else too, but appreciate she doesn’t want to rock the boat. Hope she’s home safe with her baby soon