To think 'big food' industry is to blame for the obesity epidemic, not individuals?

[aintnothinbutagstring]

When I read on MN, and when I talk to people IRL, there's an underlying attitude to obesity that it is all down to willpower, or lack of, and individual choice over whether to be fat or thin. If we all tried a little harder and were disciplined, everyone could be their ideal weight.

I recently got on to reading some books on processed food, they are not new concepts, the ideas have been around a while. Lots of scientists and MDs from the US, where the obesity epidemic is a little further down the road than in the UK, have written about the addictive nature of processed food, books such as 'Wheat Belly', 'The Dorito Effect', Robert Lustig has done many talks on it. In the UK, Joanna Blythman has wrote quite a bit on the UK food industry.

Some have linked processed food to activating dopamine receptors in the brain so it works like other addictions. Yet cannot escape it once we walk into a supermarket, most of what is for sale there is very highly processed food. It's all sugar, salt, wheat, the bad fats (processed oils like rapeseed, not natural fats which are healthy). Flavours created by amazing scientists so you'd rather eat the flavour chemicals than the actual food.

Yet we are telling obese people, some of whom may be using food addiction to deal with past trauma, lifestyle stress etc, 'it is your choice, what you eat, you need to try harder, have more self respect, more willpower'.

I see obese people now as 'you are a victim of 'big food', the companies (only a handful of global billion pound companies) that produce and cleverly advertise and use supermarkets to sell this highly refined, highly addictive processed food'. If they were educated and told it's not their fault, they might decide they don't want to play the 'big food' game anymore.

OP, people in food deserts can eat what’s available

Just not too much of it

You know, eat chips, beans and egg or pizza, or ham and cheese toasties, add a tomato or apple, have porridge or toast with peanut butter. All fine as food. And available in food deserts

Nobody is forced to drink fizzy drinks or lager, nobody is forced to eat magnums or sweets, nobody needs Pringles. It is people’s personal choice and personal responsibility what they buy and eat.

You can’t infantilise 60% of the population and call them victims.

"It is all down to willpower, or lack of, and individual choice over whether to be fat or thin. If we all tried a little harder and were disciplined, everyone could be their ideal weight."

Well this is technically true. But all of the things you spoke about are also true, and that's why it really is down to self discipline. Self discipline is really really hard and obviously shaming people is not the answer.

@LoeliaPonsonby

My car is capable of 140mph. Therefore Ford are clearly responsible for my speeding tickets, and Highways England for making the A roads such good quality that I can easily do 100mph plus. Nothing to do with my behaviour behind the wheel, then?

I don’t see anyone doing 100mph on A roads .The problem if you are on a fast road (M40 being a prime example) everyone is doing 80mph, if not more. Vision is good it’s straight and boring. Just like food the opportunity is there. So you may well know you should be doing 70mph to avoid speeding tickets but threat of a future ticket versus getting where you need to be quicker are in conflict with each.

If however everyone is driving 50mph like they do in road works, you stand out going 80mph, both the ticket and pissing other drivers off is high.
If you surround yourself with people that don’t overeat and don’t encourage you to it really helps.

I don't think there is one simple easy answer.
It isn't that people just lack will power or that big food companies are just evil pushers of bad food.

In relation to big food companies they sell what people want to eat. In the UK there has been a significant push to lower salt levels but it is hard to do because consumer taste panels prefer higher salt levels, it has to be done in small gradual quantities or a lot of people start complaining.

In Mexico Coca-Cola is a massive problem health wise but if you are poor then is it surprising you buy something with calories to drink because you would have to buy bottled water as tap water often isn't safe to drink.
Add in the issue that in some areas the drink has been tied to religious practices and it is even harder to persuade people to buy water rather than coke.
There are food education issues everywhere where there are obesity issues and often fuel issues.

@Pikachubaby - of course, yes wonderful advice, just eat less of the crap food that is available to you. You do know junk food is addictive don’t you.

No it's personal responsibility. I manage to not smoke or take drugs (I'm sure drugs would make me feel great just like a dairy milk but I know they aren't good for me). I manage to moderate my alcohol consumption to a glass of wine or a g&t here and there rather than necking the bottle.

Similarly, I don't buy junk food for in the house. I might have an ice cream on a day out or chips at the seaside but otherwise I eat fresh healthy foods because I know buying a bag of Percy pigs is not going to do me any good.

@Malbecblooms but you can’t extrapolate your experience to everyone. Someone who is overweight may have had a different upbringing, access to food, wealth, sleeping pattern and so on, the list is endless. It’s a complex issue and the fact we have health inequality amongst different sectors of people shows this. It’s being able to look outside your own experience and read the research and studies out there. Why do you think different generations or different countries have such different rates of obesity? Clue, personal responsibility only plays a small part.

@Blackandwhitehorse nah, it’s not

It’s hard to resist.

It hits the pleasure centred in the brain.

But people are not helplessly buying and stuffing in the junk food against their will

Are we really to see all humans as helpless infants, unable to think and make any decisions affecting their own health?

Is 60% of the population a victim to poverty and addiction? Not buying that

@Pikachubaby - Exactly! We are stacking the odds against people, making the healthier choices the most difficult ones to make. Personal choice only plays a small part in an incredibly complex health picture. This explains why different countries and generations have different levels of obesity. By your reckoning Americans just have less ‘willpower’ than other nationalities. Bold of you to ignore all research on this matter but if you ever want to read up on it, I can direct you to numerous studies.

This thread is making me want crisps.

People should stop coming up with million excuses. It's quite dangerous and provides a lots of safety net for a denial.
There are reasons for obesity out of persons control, but these are just not a majority. Most people just simply needs to think about what, and most importantly how much of it, they put in their mouth and having permanent narrative of "it's an addiction, ya know. Not personal responsibility failure" is not doing any favours to anyone.

I think I’d rather listen to a qualified doctor on this matter @ SchrodingersImmigrant

There are lots of reasons BUT marketing of some item (I don’t even want to call them food) doesn’t help. So as the OP pointed out chocolate at the tills, crisps upon entry to the shop, researching exact additives to trigger excess consumption isn’t healthy for anyone. Besides consumers saying no, I won’t buy that product. Should government be more involved?

People should stop coming up with million excuses. It's quite dangerous and provides a lots of safety net for a denial.
There are reasons for obesity out of persons control, but these are just not a majority. Most people just simply needs to think about what, and most importantly how much of it, they put in their mouth and having permanent narrative of "it's an addiction, ya know. Not personal responsibility failure" is not doing any favours to anyone.

This.

The point is telling people to take more responsibility doesn’t work
Like the war on drugs doesn’t work

How much do you think the big food industry is worth, how much do you think they lobby government!?
I mean how stupid are people to think that the massive obesity crisis is just down to some poor food choices from lazy people? It’s quite obvious it isn’t.

I choose not to eat processed food. I don’t eat sugar and I’m trim and healthy. Why do people choose processed crap that’s full of chemicals etc. We all have choices and those choices affect our weight and health.

@Flyingagainstreason Completely agree. The lack of compassion, empathy and critical thinking from some on here is astonishing.

This is why we will never deal with the drug crisis, and the obesity crisis will be the next huge issue.
Because with both things, we assume that it’s completely personal choice. Not down to environment, upbringing, money, class, education.

Well, we will also not deal with it if people keep calling others who disagree with mollycoddling based on their and other's experiences stupid.

Well I haven’t said that @SchrodingersImmigrant
I’ve just called them stupid and unable to think beyond “I eat well, why can’t the fat lazy cunts”

*6:20Blackandwhitehorse

@Malbecblooms but you can’t extrapolate your experience to everyone. Someone who is overweight may have had a different upbringing, access to food, wealth, sleeping pattern and so on, the list is endless. It’s a complex issue and the fact we have health inequality amongst different sectors of people shows this. It’s being able to look outside your own experience and read the research and studies out there. Why do you think different generations or different countries have such different rates of obesity? Clue, personal responsibility only plays a small part.*

Yes and no, I think it's pack of education alongside personal responsibility. I grew up ina working class family with a poor idea of nutrition. Child if the 80's, I ate a lot of fish fingers and chips, cornflakes, white bread and "kids don't like veg" attitude. As a child I wouldn't eat my friends parents cooking as I hadn't been exposed to a range of tastes.

I grew up, started to get interested in food and nutrition. Learnt lots about food. I admit I now am well off and lead a very middle class life so can afford salmon every week and live somewhere where the local town has famers markets so I experiment with fruit and veg.i don't doubt that that helps but mostly I now understand nutrition and how to cook nice foods.

Veg isn't just tasteless boiled brocolli, its proscuito wrapped asparagus or a tray of roasted root veg.

Turns out I love vegetables and base my diet around veg now. I eat lots of nuts seeds, plant based foods and high quality meats.

I don't drink squash or eat supermarket bread and I don't buy biscuits or crisps in the house. Personal self control and education to know it's bad for me.

A lot of people have a poor concept of nutrition. My parents speak of the funny foods I eat and find it odd that I feed my 5&3 year olds quinoa, avocado, hummus, salmon and risotto. They don't understand nutrition so think children should eat nuggets chips and baked beans.thats how the cycle perpetuates.

Also there is still this odd belief that healthy is boring. I had sea bass with a lemon pepper sauce this evening and is was divine. It certainly didn't feel resyrivive.

Regarding food deserts. Tesco do delivery slots for £1.

@Malbecblooms I’m similar to you, I joke that I was bought up on Birds Eye, haha. I am now the same as you, have access to farmers markets, and enough money to buy from them, I recognise the privileged position I’m in. The research shows that people have the best health outcomes where the environment is set up for them to easily make healthy choices, blaming individuals isn’t a good way forward, that is what is happening now, and guess what the problem is getting worse. Re Tesco delivery, some people genuinely can’t afford the minimum spend. It’s a really complex issue and it’s damaging and unhelpful to blame and shame individuals.

@Malbecblooms
But you’ve just perfectly illustrated how you can give anecdotal evidence of your life and not see the bigger picture.

Everyone has an anecdote. Does that make it scientific or medical fact. No

The food industry, more specifically the fast/ processed food industry is acting like the tobacco industry used to:

Lobbying
Huge amounts spent on advertising.
Huge amount spent on tracking how humans react to what’s offered to them.
Specific Targeted catering to people Who will buy into what’s offered to them.
Paying premiums to be eyeline in supermarkets.
Using known addictive additives.

All the things that killed people back in the old days that we now look at, like cigarette advertising, we can’t believe that was allowed. It LITERALLY killed people.

But apparently this is just fat lazy people.

What about the swathes of indigenous peoples around the world who have almost been wiped out by sugar and additives. Are they just lazy fat people who can’t control what that eat. Or have they been targeted as consumers by big business.

Most medical experts agree that the brain is hugely complex and we don’t know much about it, and these new “drugs” are something we understand little about. But most people are clear. It’s not as simple as eat less for many many people.